Private health care and bankruptcy

[Narith]

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article ... 0209990015

I knew that medical bills were a major contributing factor to most bankruptcies, however what I did not realise is that how many people were insured.

It seems that the private health care system needs a total make over, because even fully covered most americans seem to be 1 major illness away from banruptcy if this article is correct.

From personal expierience and watching family that have had to declare it, I do know that even with the insurance given to state emplyees (which I would assume is some of the best out there) medical bills from one illness climbs into the tenss of thousands just from what the insurance company will not cover.

So how much truth is there to this you think?

[Partha]

Anecdotal evidence, but quite a bit. Real wages have stagnated for years while medical treatments continue to rise in cost, and there's less insurance to soften the blow. Add to that exorbitant drug prices and shenanigans like doctors sending people for unneeded testing (many times to a place the doctor gets a cut from for referrals), and, yeah, there are a LOT of people who are one major illness away from the hole.

Personal examples I can think of include a coworker who's husband needs a liver (Hep C) who's dealing with the cuts to Veteran's benefits. Another coworker who's still struggling to pay off the old bills from her premature birth and the treatments it took to save the infant. That's not including family I know of, including my own mother.

[Mozmonar]

It seems that the private health care system needs a total make over...

Private health care is not glamorous enough for you?

[Aabe]

Many of these people have insurance in the article.

Just listened to a lecture on medical health care reform pitch, for extra credit in my anatomy class.
Cost rising because of:

1. Added beurocracys on insurance and hospital taking opposite sides arguing to pay or not pay for procedures. Has more than doubled hospital clerical staff. Built a whole work force in the insurance industry.
2. Hgher tech procedures = more money and many are undeeded, partly from uneducation and partly to CYA for lawsuits.
3. Lawsuits. Oddly enough the real cost is not in the legal settlements, its in the doubling of CYA documentation doctors and staff have to fill out to resist the lawsuit possibility. Sadly a journal article found that medical lawsuits that are won are no more likely than not to have a valid claim. (might as well flip a coin) Even if lawsuits were capped the beurocracy is alreay in place for the CYA documentation and procedures, seldom does beurocracy pare itself down.

In European countries that do well, they also have a "If you are over 80yr clause" such that if you need dialisis, it will not be covered if you are over 80. Often one quarter to one half of your total life time health care costs are spent in the last year of your life. If you are critically ill and the state says you are too old. They can save a bundle by just letting you die with only pain management treatments.

Complicated problem, hard decisions, and the costs climb on.

[Rsak]

One reason for raising costs that should not be forgotten is the fact that new treatments are available then before. Those new treatments means your life can be saved where previously you could only be made comfortable as you die.

But added on to those new treatments is the administrative costs that effect everything and you find yourself in the situation where the field of medicine has outpaced the ability of the average citizen to afford what we now term standard medical care.

This feeds into Insurance companies becoming involved and the bueracracy continues to grow as well as the litigation.

[Kulaf]

The hard cold truth of the matter is.......not everyone deserves the same level of healthcare under a free market economy. People who are wealthy are going to pay for the best and people who are not are going to get what they can afford. If I want a Mercedes Maybach I can either go out and buy it.......or I can realize I don't have the money for that and settle on a Dodge Neon. Why should healthcare be any different?

That is the hard and cold truth of medical treatments.....the rich will get treated with the very best technology not because they deserve it......but because they can afford it. The rest of us will get HMO covverage because that is what we can afford. Might suck.....but it's the simple economic reality in our current system.

Prior to health insurrance if you got sick and could not afford the treatment you died. Period.

[Ddrak]

Why should healthcare be any different?

Well, the obvious answer is that the car you drive really doesn't affect your future health to the degree your health care options do.

Dd

[Chants Evensong]

Bankruptcy has been the national health care system of the US for many, many years.

This "new" insight from the article is not new.

[Partha]

Why should healthcare be any different?

From the government's perspective, a healthy American lives longer, probably has more children (more tax $$), works longer (more tax $$), and buys more stuff (more tax $$, more economic grease).

[jookkor]

Luckily if I ever get really sick I will just transfer to a different hospital. In Canada. Duel Citizenship FTW baby!

[Aabe]

Canadian health care when you are not critically ill: Take a number jookkor sir.... <jookkor gets number 11045> .. <speaker system> calling number 2... number 2 plase come to the admittance door.

[Relbeek Einre]

Funny, the Canucks I know seem to say that description of their healthcare is bullshit.

The British too....

[Aabe]

To my knowlege, no one has a perfect health care system yet. Cultural differences alone make it impossible to have a single perfect healthcare system anyway. My views of the Canadian health care system came from a physician neighbor that moved to the US from Canada. But we have gone down hill since then.

[maltheos]

The canadians I know do complain about their health care system -- if its not urgent the waits are longer than in the US. What this boils down to though is that in the US you'd get an appointment for a phyusical in 2 days, in canada you'll wait a week or 2. So you have to plan a bit more, but really if its not urgent care, what is the rush? OTOH, at the office or in the event of urgently needed care they are easily comprable to the US. Still complained about, and still not as good as possible, but office waits and emergency room snarls and office waits are part of life in the big city.

[Ddrak]

That's the way most socialized health care works - elective surgery is shunted to the longer waiting queues to maintain essential services.

I like Australia's system (as a theoretical model, it's kinda kooky in other places) - socialized essential health care with a private system layered on top. Essential services are guaranteed but if you want "better" hospitals, elective surgery or your choice of doctor then you have the option of using the private system and paying for it yourself (or through private health insurance). If you choose the private system for essential services you get to claim the amount the government would have paid the public system to do it.

Although I'm usually pretty pro-private industry, I do see health care as an area that could thrive much better if basic services were socialized and removed from corporate profit-grabbing. In my opinion, the private system has completely broken down when insurance companies can and do second guess doctors in choice of treatments.

Dd

[Aabe]

Good info Ddrak, I like the compromise, didn't realize anyone was doing that.

[Relbeek Einre]

As a note, my healthcare plan (healthpartners) I have to wait 3 weeks or more for a physical.

[Atira]

Good Health care in Canada is viewed as a right. No discrimination, no priveledged treatment .... Its well funded , and as Beeker says, the crap you hear about it are bull*&$# . Sometimes I wonder if the ones propogating the falsehoods are those that dont want universal healthcare in their own country.

The hospitals in my area (4) ... have no waiting period. You come in the doors, and you see a Tirage nurse immediately (this is in all hospitals) . She assesses you from head to toe. If you have a cold, you wait. If you are going to loose a limb you get a gurney immediately. You have a ache in your back , kinda sorta, you wait , if you have a pain in your chest , you are in a room and on a heart monitor in minutes. All you do is give them your health card. Period. You see the same doctors as would Bill Gates. If you broke your leg and need a cast , you get the care, but pay $50 for the cast, unless you are on welfare, and in that case , the fee is waved. If you need medicine immediately, you buy it, put it to your insurance, or in the case of welfare or the elderly, you pay $1.00 only to cover the dispensing fee. Even if you are a millionaire but over the age of 65 = you meds are free. Births = no charge. Circumcision , you pay $700 bucks for it. Need your tubes tied ? no charge. Have a brain tumor ? no charge. Need a new kidney ? Some bloke just died, we will give you his, no charge. Heck, child in Beruit has Mysterydisease#7452 , no problem, Sick Kids in Toronto will do all the surgery for free, and we even have volunteer organizations that will pay for their mom and dad to come with them and stay in a nice hotel near the hospital, meals and medicine = No Charge. You are 67 and your knee has worn out ? No worries , we will give you a new one, NO charge, please be patient, there are 54,876 people ahead of you , but we can do it in June , is that ok ? Your mother just collapsed with a heart attack , and she needs an immediate quadrupal bipass ? We will get her stabalized, and have her in the O.R., in within 24 hours.

We loose good doctors and nurses to the U.S. We loose athletes and lawyers too . Money talks loudly for some people. If your primary drive is to earn a million dollars a year as a GP, then go to the states. In canada the average GP salary is aprox $400,000.00 and they are not allowed to bill more to the Government. (give or take depending on how big the city is you live in) You have a higher income if you specialize eg: surgeon, or pediatrician, neurologist, internist etc. Doctors billings are spot checked, and often. They send a questionare to the patients home.

My provinces Tory (conservative) government cut massively to our health care system , in the '90's and that action caused a huge wave of internal changes and audits of our hospitals and clinics. Amazing how much waste and exess there was. Now they are leaner and even more efficient. With the strong economy, and a Liberal government, millions of dollars will go back into these institutions, and be spent more wisely than before.

Yes there have been a few bad incidents where people in ambulances have been turned away, and taken to another hospital. Some have even died on route. Its happens ... investigations took place, and changes were made. Modifying a care system this large has its pitfalls.

Another interesting fact is most canadian hospitals have a HUGE wating list for --> Volunteers! Yes , thats right... thousands of volunteers, wait their turn to come and make your stay more comfortable and less tramatic. They scoot around like little busy bees in all the wards. Some hospitals have 2-3 yrs wating period. You have to wait your turn to give of your time for free to help people ya know. Need a wheelchair ride ? a magazine? someone to chat to? Have to go down to Xray ? Need directions around the hospital? ...No problem. Just HAIL the lady, fella, teenager, whatever in the yellow tunic. Gosh, they even have to buy their own uniforms ! Want to go outside and stroll the grounds while you re-couperate ? Sure ! Our Volunteer horticultural society plants and maintains the beautiful gardens, no charge, so you can stop and smell the roses. No Joke.

Down the main road from me there has been a ton of construction for a few years. Its a huge new hospital that specializes in cancer treatment. How did it get built you ask ? Not from goverment money, oh no, we are cutting back. Donations. All of it. Millions and Millions worth.

Do we pay alot in taxes ? Sure.
Is it worth it ? Absolutely.
I say we live in one of , if not thee most wonderful country in the world and its worth every penny.

Atira

[Ddrak]

You see the same doctors as would Bill Gates.

That's the part I have a problem with. Bill Gates (or whoever in Canada) should have the right to spend his money to pay for whatever doctor he chooses. The government shouldn't tell you that you can't spend your money if you really want to - they should just be there to pick up the basic health care for those that don't have the money to spend.

Dd

[Embar Angylwrath]

As a note, my healthcare plan (healthpartners) I have to wait 3 weeks or more for a physical.

Maybe they just have to prepare...