Private health care and bankruptcy

[Atira]

Ok Dd , i see the point you are making. Makes sence, so lets go with your philosphy here .... play it through for debate sake ... =) For the argument, we will have to presume that Bill and Joe are Canadian citizens.

Bill Gates and Joe Blow arrive at Niceness Hospital in Ontario.
Bill Gates has fallen down the stairs at a conference and his leg is bad.
Joe Blow has fallen off his ladder at his construction job, and his leg is bad.

Bill arrives by Ambulance or Limosine.
Joe arrives by Ambulance or Dump truck.

They enter the emergency room.

Bill's assistant gets to the counter first, and whispers that 'BILL GATES' is here and has hurt his leg.
Joes buddy waits behind Bill's assistant.

Bill's assistant Betty is told to take a seat at the reporting centre to give the info.
Joe's buddy Jerry tells the nurse that Joe has hurt his leg bad in a fall at work.

Bills info and health card are processed. Betty puts a call into Bills own Doctor on her cell phone.
Joe's info is now being taken. at the first counter.

Bill gets wheeled over to the Triage nurse for vitals and details of his injury. Betty tells her that his doctor in on route, and could Mr. Gates please have a bed immediately.
Joe and Jerry wait for their turn with the Traige nurse.

The triage nurse tells B&B that they are to take a seat, and someone will come for them shortly.
Joe gets wheeled up to the triage nurse for his vitals and details of his injury.

15 min has passed.

J&J are told to have a seat and someone will be out for them shortly.
B&B are fuming because they arent taken first over all the others, and are still waiting for his Doctor to drive to the hospital.

Joe's vitals are a bit higher than Bill's , and there was more severe bruising , and broken tissue , so a nurse comes for Joe and takes him to a bed in the E.R.
Betty insists that Mr. Gates get a bed immediately, that he needs to be away from the public, isnt there something the nurse can do !

Joe gets settled on a bed , and his trouser leg is cut open to the knee, so they can treat the leg . An E.R. nurse comes in and tends to Joe, examines further and in more detail., and cuts off the rest of his pants, and asks jerry to Gown him.
A volunteer comes out for Bill , and wheels him into the bed beside Joe , curtains closed. Betty goes and asks if they can have a more private room. The nurse tells Betty that where he is atm is the best place for examination and treatment.

30 minutes has passed.

An E.R. nurse comes to Bill , and asks if he can get his pants off, or should they cut it open . Betty leaves the room. The nurse has to cut off his pants too, he cant straighten his leg.
The ER nurse hooks Joe up to an IV, and takes his pulse and blood pressure again. The swelling is increasing, and so is the pain.

Bill is made comfortable and Betty comes back in the room. His Doctor is already talking to the nurse at the desk., asking for vitals and a visual report.
Joe gets seen to by one of the ER doctors who tells him he will have an Xray and that they will probably need a specialist in to set his leg. He precribes pain medication.

45 min has passed.

Bills Doctor arrives and walks into Bills room. examines his leg, and chit chats about high tech stocks. Betty fields some phone calls takes messages.
A volunteer comes to Joe, and wheels him, bed and all down to Xray, his friend is told that he may come too , but will wait in a waiting room.

Bills Doctor is sure the leg is broken, and wants it Xrayed. He goes out to converse with the nurse. This is not his residence hospital, so he needs to know who is on staff.
Joe has his Xray.

One hour has passed.

Bill gets wheeled down to the Xray department, his doctor will wait in the ER for him. No one asks Bill for his autograph.
Joe is resettled in his room, and his vitals are rechecked. He is told that a specialist will come in to consult with him once the xrays have been examined.

Bill has his Xray. Betty takes more calls and gets a coffee. The Doctor asks to see the Xrays asap.
Jerry calls Joe's wife, informs her of the happenings. Jerry has to go back to work.

1.5 hours has passed

Specialist arrives at the desk in the ER and looks at Joes Xray. Its bad. It cant be casted yet, needs a pin, and a bit of surgery. Possibly antibiotics .
Bills Xrays arrive at the desk , and the specialist looks at those also. Basic break, nothing special. He orders a cast-to-go and wonders if Gates will be able to tell that he is a computer clutz .

Joes wife arrives at the hospital, starts to cry, and they worry about whether or not he will get paid for the whole day or only a half day. The specialist gives joe the bad news.
Bill's Doctor and the specialist discuss Bills treatment. Bill meanwhile makes some busness decisions via his laptop.

Joe and his wife are told by the nurse that a room in being prepared for him. Can his wife please see the admissions Nurse.
Bill gets the low down on his leg... needs a cast, doesnt have to be set, but his Doctor wants him, in his office in 2 days. He asks Bill if he would like any drugs. The specialist stuck his head around the corner long enough to meet Mr. Gates in person, and tell him that his leg would heal fine.

2 hours has passed

Joe is wheeled up to his room. his vitals are rechecked and his leg is examined for any changes.
Bill gets wheeled into the chose-your-crazy-coloured-cast room. Bill's doctor doesnt cast, they have special staff here that do that. He lets Betty chose the colour. They are all out of pink, blue and black ... only white green and purple left . They chose white.

3 hours has passed

Joe gets another visit from the specialist , and hears about the immergency surgery they have schedualled for the morning. He will stay in hospital for at least another day, and will require a cast for 8 weeks. Joe will only have to pay for the cast and crutches. $109. He will not be able to return to work. The doctor fills out his part of the Joe's workman's compensation application. Joe's wife cry's and smiles at the doctor at the same time. She thanks him. Joe gets more pain killers. The nurse tells Joe he cant have anything to eat or drink until after the surgery. His wife goes home to feed the kids, but will be back at 8 to visit. She will bring him his robe and clean clothes.

Bill gets his cast, and a walking platform for it, and a crutch. The fee is 109.00 . His new pants come vial courier , from Harry Rosen's on Young street, downtown head office. A gift, they are free, courtesy of Harry Rosen and Co, along with a huge bouquet of flowers, and a get well card.

Joe lays back, and tries to sleep.
Bill gets wheeled out to his limosine.

Bill can freely pay for the services if he wants to, on top of paying his taxes. But he is covered by our health care, through his taxes. My question is this ..why would Bill want to pay for it ?

Atira

[Ddrak]

Ok - now for a realistic interpretation of what money can do:

Bill hurts his leg. He gets multiple doctors and specialists to come to him without him having to wait in any ER for anyone. Some of those specialists flew across the country on private jets to get there. He has tests run for everything from Tetanus to AIDS as well as multiple CAT scans even though they are extreme outside chances. His cast is made of new materials that are far more lightweight and he gets twice-daily pysiotherapy to ensure perfect recovery.

One of the thousand Joe's that came in that day dies of a blood clot that one of Bill's tests would have picked up.

If you seriously can't understand the difference private health care can make to those that can afford it then you really don't have much of an imagination.

Dd

[Atira]

ROFL

Yes i can see the Bill's of this world making that happen lol. As a matter of fact, the Bill's of this world aready DO make that happen in alot of countries. Dont need an imagination for that, its a well established fact.

In many nations, having money can buy you life. Not having it can kill you.
In some nations, your life is priceless and protected whether you have money or not.

Would you tell a man with a mangled leg that he will be lame for the rest of his life because the Bill's can pay more to use the machines and the doctors first ?

Short and sweet , thats the kind of care "private health care" gives people. All systems have peramenters. Move a parameter, the sytem changes and the effects change with it.

Introduce private health care along side of public health care, those able to offer the finest services migrate to the wealthier clientele. Middle class and poor suffer greater losses. Good health care should be accessable, affordable and equitable.

Life is not just about you, but about the man standing beside you. Without each other, we are lost.

Atira

[Ddrak]

ntroduce private health care along side of public health care, those able to offer the finest services migrate to the wealthier clientele. Middle class and poor suffer greater losses

There's no evidence to support that claim. In fact, there's significant evidence against it. The government pays the same amount whether there's a private system layered on top or not - just with the private system you get more money flushing through, giving more benefits to everyone.

Life is not just about you, but about the man standing beside you. Without each other, we are lost.

How quaintly socialist of you. It's proven false, but sounds nice.

Dd

[Narith]

Ok - now for a realistic interpretation of what money can do:

Bill hurts his leg. He gets multiple doctors and specialists to come to him without him having to wait in any ER for anyone. Some of those specialists flew across the country on private jets to get there. He has tests run for everything from Tetanus to AIDS as well as multiple CAT scans even though they are extreme outside chances. His cast is made of new materials that are far more lightweight and he gets twice-daily pysiotherapy to ensure perfect recovery.

One of the thousand Joe's that came in that day dies of a blood clot that one of Bill's tests would have picked up.

If you seriously can't understand the difference private health care can make to those that can afford it then you really don't have much of an imagination.

Dd

This is true, the rich would have multiple tests performed that they would have to pay out of pocket cash for. In America though even with private insurance unless you can pay cash you will have none of those tests performed and will die from that blood clot just as anyone with a public healthcare system. No private health care in America would ever allow additional tests, in fact they deny doctors to perform some tests that most people would see as vital. Private insurance is just bad all around, the whole point of it is to avoid having to declare bankruptcy for any major medical condition, however due to what they refuse to pay for and treatments they refuse to allow doctors to perform many people end up declaring bankruptcy anyways and some even die where in a country with public health care would have been allowed treatment and lived.

Public health care is actually better than private in many ways, first way being that with private it is a business to make money first and save lives second, if you are worth more to them dead then bye bye, or if your treatments cost too much and they would lose too much money on the deal your funeral will be cheaper.... Public you don't have a price tag above your head, you are treated reguardless of the cost.

People without insurance in America rarely ever go to the doctor unless it is a life threatening emergency in which case they use the ER, with public health care many people would live longer because they could get problems taken care of before they turned into a major emergency.

The one good thing about private health care is that you are not paying the extra taxes for public health care which helps the poor by keeping more money in thier pay check, however it also hurts them because they are usually the ones without the health care. It is about money in the end and that is why bankruptcy is usually the result wether insured or not. If you can afford to pay cash out of pocket you will have better health care than the rest of the people around you, but as far as insurence goes you are in the same boat as public health care only emergencies cost you more with private than public.

[Narith]

Life is not just about you, but about the man standing beside you. Without each other, we are lost.

How quaintly socialist of you. It's proven false, but sounds nice.

Dd

It sounds more humanitarian than socialist to me, maybe I am missing something.