Cops: Boy, 7, Beat Baby Sister to Death

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:40 pm

That is just absurd logic Gelly Kitty. You claim it is illogical to contemplate the execution of a 7 yr old and then spout off with a criteria for the use of the death penalty that includes its application for children.

Absolutely the DP should be considered for children when the crime is severe enough, however additional scrutiny should be applied for those we consider children. The flawed logic however is believing that people pass a magical age and suddenly become responsible for themselves and that this age coincides with when that individual has the power to actually commit the acts that they should be responsible for.

Gelly kitty · Post by **Gelly kitty** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:17 pm

ummm. When did I spout anything about its application for children?

I don't like the idea of trying minors as adults at all. I like the Idea of an adult sentance being handed down by a jury of ones peers and a 7 year old is not going to have peers for jurrors.

We set "magical" ages all the time. We set an age when people can drive, consent to sex, sign legal documents, fight a war. All this without any regard to that individuals ability to reason or perform the applicable task.

A 7 year old ... any 7 year old cannot possibly understand the real world ramifications of his actions enough to be held responsibal, as an adult, for those actions.

Further, children are much more repairable human beings then adults are. A child suffering from wrong-thinking can likely be fixed, putting that child into the adult system will utterly rob that child of a chance.

Embar Angylwrath · Post by **Embar Angylwrath** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:33 am

Trollbait wrote:
That would be a perfectly acceptable alternative.

That would not be a Constitutional alternative. Extended solitary confinement has been ruled to be "cruel and unusual" punishment.

That hasn't been evaluated for individuals sentenced to death.

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:56 am

You allowed for the application of the DP with this very statement:

There are some cases when I think it is warented. Multiple, unrelated, eye witnesses make positive ID and corroberative testimony. Maybe the suspects fingerprint on the murder weapon in the victems blood. Video evidence clearly showing the crime. Several sources of imperical evidence supporting the suspect as the perpetrator.

And here you abuse logic even farther:

We set an age when people can drive, consent to sex, sign legal documents, fight a war. All this without any regard to that individuals ability to reason or perform the applicable task.

You cannot drive without a license which requires testing on the laws as well as driving tests which most certainly require that we consider the ability to reason or perform the applicable task.

I don't deny that children are much more repairable which is why they deserver stricter scrutiny when considering the death penalty, but to think that it could never be used is just absurd.

Gelly kitty · Post by **Gelly kitty** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:52 pm

Maybe I didn't understand your complaint then. You seemed to be saying that I at some point in my post allowed for the execution of a 7 year old.

My point about driving tests and what not is still made. We set an age limit on when a person can drive that has nothing to do with their ability to do so. We then test those who reach that limit to weed out the potentially poor drivers. A 7 year old who is otherwise capable and competent driver is still prohibited from getting a drivers license.

A 7 year old who is exceptionally gifted and mature beyond her years is still not capable of legally consenting to sex.

We have to balance rights with responsibility. If a 7 year old does not have the right to do adult things, even when otherwise capable of doing them well, then they do not and should not suffer the responsibilites for adult action.

I think every other human being in the world accepts this as common sense. A Child is not an adult and should not be prosecuted and punished like an adult.

I will conceed there is a real debate (yes the one about a 7 year old being executed for murder was very far from a real debate) about when a person is an adult. But my head hurts

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:32 am

You seemed to be saying that I at some point in my post allowed for the execution of a 7 year old.

I said exactly that. Your criteria for cases where you think it is warranted applies whether the criminal is a juvenile or an adult since that level of evidence can be obtained in both.

A 7 year old who is otherwise capable and competent driver is still prohibited from getting a drivers license.

A 7 year old is not capable of driving because they are not physically developed enough to both steer the vehicle, reach the pedals, and look at all the mirrors and windows that they need to see. You are reaching for straws here and it shows.

A Child is not an adult and should not be prosecuted and punished like an adult.

I never said that they should be prosecuted and punished like an adult. I will repeat once more that there will be stricter scrutiny and a different level of crime necessary to execute a child, but do not operate under the mistaken belief that only adults can kill and thus be a large enough danger to society that they must be removed completely.