Hillary blasts GOP, press

Embar Angylwrath · Post by **Embar Angylwrath** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:27 pm

Apparently you haven't seen him take GW to the woodshed of his profligate spending.

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:32 pm

Oh, big deal. That's the token action every Libertarian takes against El Presidente - he's a big spender.

How about sending thousands of people to their deaths?

How about secrecy and lack of transparency?

How about the fucking PATRIOT act?

How about lying to us to send us to war?

How about consolidation of power?

How about corporate handouts disguised as Medicare benefits or foreign aid?

Any true libertarian would be screaming about all those. Only those milquetoast self-proclaimed Libertarians who want to present an independent image but who really suck at the teat of the Republican spin machine would give all those a miss.

Bullshit, Embar. He's a shill.

Post by **Ddrak** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:47 pm

Embar wrote:the "she did it too" isn't a defense

Hold on a sec - you are therefore saying that Hillary is correct, just she's as bad as the people she's attacking? I could probably agree with that sentiment.

Notice how Boortz didn't disagree with Hillary, he just indulged in an ad homeniem attack and ignored the statements. Makes me suspect he also agrees with Hillary (or at least doesn't disagree) just knows he can't say it on the air without instantly losing his dittohead listeners.

Dd

Arathena · Post by **Arathena** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:48 pm

All of these are things that W. needs to be taken to task for, yes. But I thought we were chatting about Hillary's blatant trolling attempt here, boys?

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:53 pm

Like I said, Ddrak, I'm no Hillary fan. I also think she's been pilloried more than she deserves and a lot of the muck surrounding her is BS. Is she being a hypocrite in her speech? Sure. A lot more than her audience thought - less than Boortz thinks.

I agree that Boortz wouldn't dare say Hillary had a point for fear of losing his audience.

There were actually two things that I thought Hillary's speech brought to mind:

A) The Dems should be waging this rhetorical war as a group, not Hillary doing it alone.

B) Hillary's criticism of the press is long overdue. The press is a bunch of toadies these days. And it, too, should be repeated, long and loud.

Harlowe · Post by **Harlowe** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:11 pm

I have many of those gripes with the Republicans. Especially with regard to spending, big government, Iraq and the Patriot Act.

Hell, some of the things Hillary said I even agree with, BUT the problem is, I don't really see a great deal of hope coming from the Democrats to offer the great alternative.

Since fiscally, both parties are just as spend-happy (they just spend it differently) and both seem to be big-government, the parties have boiled down to issues.

I've been ready to give a Democratic candidate a shot since Bush's first term, so far they haven't given me anything to really latch onto and say "hell yeah".

Arathena · Post by **Arathena** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:38 pm

You know, the more I think about it, the more I come to realize how much this single speech (and the debate around it) wraps up the entire problem with modern American politics: Both sides have become incorrigibly unable to do what the nation actually needs in their dual lusts for power and to punish the 'foe', and there's absolutely no one out there who's willing to call them on it. (Okay, the Hildabeast has one good point.) Too bad we all have to choke on the fumes of the burning shit.

Personally, I'm hoping the Libertarian party manages to post a few candidates at the mid-level soon that understand that it's going to take at least as long to pare the governmetn back to that which is legal and that which is illegal-but-unfortunately-needed as it took to make it into the bloated monstrosity that it is now. Too bad they're not gonna mount a politically competant take over any time soon.

Fobbon Lazyfoot · Post by **Fobbon Lazyfoot** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:07 am

I can't bring myself to give a shit about Hilary's hypocrisy. If someone has a point, they have a point. The same statement coming out of someone else's mouth dosen't make it any less accurate.

SicTimMitchell · Post by **SicTimMitchell** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:34 am

IMO, Libertarianism is where the old-skool conservatives are hiding because they're (we're) embarrassed by what's happened with the repubs.

My guess is, if you get a John McCain or Colin Powell running, you'd be surprised how many "Libertarians" come back to vote republican. (Unless the Dems came up with someone REALLY good, if McCain wins the 2008 nomination I'd be voting republican again for the first time since Reagan.)

The sad thing is, Clinton was a better conservative than Bush is. (Welare reform, balanced budget, etc.)

The downfall of the party wasn't Rush Limbaugh. It was when it got to the point where Pat Robertson was considered a serious political candidate.

God bless the Reagans for coming out in favor of stem cell research.

Syeni Soulslasher MK6 · Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:59 am

SicTimMitchell wrote:IMO, Libertarianism is where the old-skool conservatives are hiding because they're (we're) embarrassed by what's happened with the repubs.

My guess is, if you get a John McCain or Colin Powell running, you'd be surprised how many "Libertarians" come back to vote republican. (Unless the Dems came up with someone REALLY good, if McCain wins the 2008 nomination I'd be voting republican again for the first time since Reagan.)

The sad thing is, Clinton was a better conservative than Bush is. (Welare reform, balanced budget, etc.)

The downfall of the party wasn't Rush Limbaugh. It was when it got to the point where Pat Robertson was considered a serious political candidate.

God bless the Reagans for coming out in favor of stem cell research.

I was so pissed when Bush beat McCain in 2000 for GOP nom......
I can only hope McCain wins the nomination in 08 the Repubs would regain a lot of face in my eyes and I dubt the Dems are going to offer anything worth a shit besides Edwards, But McCain would beat Edwards easly.

Now I could only Wish for a McCain/Powell ticket but would not happen Powell doesn't want it. But it would be impossable to beat that line up IMO.

/nod McCain would get my vote as well

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:00 am

I'd be tempted to vote Republican with a McCain/Powell lineup.

Post by **Ddrak** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:41 am

Powell/McCain would be even better.

Dd

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:42 am

No. Powell lost cred when he tried to sell the UN an Iraqi war bill of goods.

Post by **Ddrak** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:56 am

Not to me. Free of the current administration I think he'd make a fine President.

Don't make me call you racist for wanting the white guy over the black one!

Dd

Syeni Soulslasher MK6 · Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:08 am

Ddrak wrote:Not to me. Free of the current administration I think he'd make a fine President.

Don't make me call you racist for wanting the white guy over the black one!

Dd

I will agree, that blemish on Powell I attribute to the admin and not him. But not everyone sees it that way. How ever its hard to say if Powell could hold up to the amount of fire he would receive running for president (since has been reluctant to try in the past) and VP is probably a good starting point for him (if he even wanted to do that, perhaps warm to the idea of being the #1 to run 8 years latter)

McCain is ready he has felt the heat and will be much more prepared this time and his high (relatively) credibility (just like Powell) with both parties will aid him tremendously (if got the nom). Chances are McCain won’t get the nom he isn’t what the GOP base wants (Powell would fit better with the base), on that note if he were to change parties he would probably make an interesting run with Edwards. Time will tell.

Atleast the way I see it.

Kulaf · Post by **Kulaf** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:20 am

Powell does not strike me as a person to do things he doesn't believe in. I think he went to the UN fully believing what he was presenting represented the state of facts in Iraq.

clubbin · Post by **clubbin** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:52 am

I lost a lot of respect for Powell ever since the Bush administration started selling the war to us. Not as much respect lost for the rest of the crew, but he was still part of problem. However, if I was forced to vote republican he would probably be the one I would want to vote for from the current choice of candidates. I am a registered republican...

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:53 am

I have been a fan of Powell's since before most people knew who the hell he was (like during Iran-Contra) but I do not believe he didn't know he was bullshitting the UN. He's too smart for that. A conversation with Jecks long ago let me partially forgive him for that (Jecks gave me some insights into the character of men like Powell and their value of loyalty over integrity -- a valid morality, just one I don't share, I believe in the reverse), but not totally. I also don't know what to make of his FCC nepotism.