Ddrak, I think you're missing my point. I wasn't talking about actual recidivism rates, but simply saying that once a child molester, always a child molester, once a boob lover, always a boob lover, once a toe guy, always a toe guy.
Walrus
Wonder if the ACLU is against this...
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Gelly kitty
- Meow
- Posts: 934
- Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:34 pm
Perhaps only partially related to this thread but bear with me. This is on the subject of what to do with convicted pedophiles.
So we have people that commit a crime once or more likely just get caught for the first time and convicted and sentenced for a few years. Whatever the sentance it seems too small compared to the number of child molesters that repeat their crimes. But it just doesn't work in this country to put someone away for life for a first offence.
So I had an Idea and it one that we have the technology to implement in this day and age I think. Sentence any sex crime vs. a child (and I mean kiddie kid crime not just a statuatory assault) per the normal guidlines but add a lifetime sentance to where an anklet.
People have been talking about these GPS anklets on the news shows for a while now, those are not what I mean. A gps anklet will let a monitor know where the person is but really doesn't stop him from committing a crime.
I'm talking about something new. In addition to the traditional functions. The anklet has a reciever. Daycares, theme parks, zoo's, anywhere children are , by design, to congregate, get a transmitter. When the convicted sex offender gets within 100 feet of the transmitter it gives a little buzz. a few minutes later it emits a 200db siren.
Just seems like way to balance prison capacity against the safety of the community.
So we have people that commit a crime once or more likely just get caught for the first time and convicted and sentenced for a few years. Whatever the sentance it seems too small compared to the number of child molesters that repeat their crimes. But it just doesn't work in this country to put someone away for life for a first offence.
So I had an Idea and it one that we have the technology to implement in this day and age I think. Sentence any sex crime vs. a child (and I mean kiddie kid crime not just a statuatory assault) per the normal guidlines but add a lifetime sentance to where an anklet.
People have been talking about these GPS anklets on the news shows for a while now, those are not what I mean. A gps anklet will let a monitor know where the person is but really doesn't stop him from committing a crime.
I'm talking about something new. In addition to the traditional functions. The anklet has a reciever. Daycares, theme parks, zoo's, anywhere children are , by design, to congregate, get a transmitter. When the convicted sex offender gets within 100 feet of the transmitter it gives a little buzz. a few minutes later it emits a 200db siren.
Just seems like way to balance prison capacity against the safety of the community.
Geli Poisonstorm
65 Prophet =^..^=
Nkutani Poisonstorm
64 Rogue
<Retired>
I may be a cat, but I am also a woman. With feelings, and pride, and ... claws.
65 Prophet =^..^=
Nkutani Poisonstorm
64 Rogue
<Retired>
I may be a cat, but I am also a woman. With feelings, and pride, and ... claws.
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superwalrus
- kNight of the Sun (oxymoron)
- Posts: 1735
- Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:44 pm
hmmm
you're fucking with me right? Of course they're full of hooha.So, you're also claiming that those Christian organizations that claim to be able to turn gays straight are full of hooha, too, right?
Walrus
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Jarochai Alabaster
- The Original Crayola Cleric
- Posts: 2380
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:52 pm
- Location: Behind you
Walrus, by your logic, I should still be turned on by women. I'm not, except by the most babe-o-licious of babes, and still not enough to want to fuck one. The thought of sex with a woman all but disgusts me, whereas it used to turn me on more than the thought of porking a guy.
Unlike Bang, I have no issue equating homosexuality to pedophelia, bestiality, necrophelia, or any other sexual desire. I think they're all orientations, and relate to each other in the same way that homosexuality and heterosexuality do. One can be afflicted with multiple orientations, but only the hetero-homo combination has a name that I'm aware of.
Sexual orientation can be altered. Certainly not for everyone, but I did significantly diminsh my attraction to women, to the point of nearly extinguishing it. I've met plenty of other people who have attempted - with mixed results - to enact change in their sexuality.
To say that Sexual Reorientation Therapy (I think I'm remembering the name of the treatment right) never works is absurd. Many people seek help in realigning their sexuality to one they would be more comfortable with. While many of the specifically Christian groups who simply tell you to "pray out the gay" probably have a high failure or relapse rate, I can assure you that change is possible. Many psychologists deal with that issue specifically, and my own therapist said she could refer me to a colleague of hers if I was ever interested in learning more about a realistic, therapeutic means to that end.
Of course, the key is a desire to change. Just as the alcoholic or drug addict gains nothing from AA or NA meetings if they don't recognize a problem, any homosexual who is coerced, pressured, or forced into treatment isn't going to come out of it straight.
Human sexuality is a much more complex machine than most give it credit for. All of us, I believe, have the capacity - if not the desire - to be gay, straight, pedophile, necro, or zoophile. To assume that sexuality cannot be altered, influenced, or outright changed in some is like saying that a person's taste in music or film can never be changed. Our tastes and desires change so frequently throughout our lives. I don't see how sexual attractions, fetishes, and habits are any exception.
Unlike Bang, I have no issue equating homosexuality to pedophelia, bestiality, necrophelia, or any other sexual desire. I think they're all orientations, and relate to each other in the same way that homosexuality and heterosexuality do. One can be afflicted with multiple orientations, but only the hetero-homo combination has a name that I'm aware of.
Sexual orientation can be altered. Certainly not for everyone, but I did significantly diminsh my attraction to women, to the point of nearly extinguishing it. I've met plenty of other people who have attempted - with mixed results - to enact change in their sexuality.
To say that Sexual Reorientation Therapy (I think I'm remembering the name of the treatment right) never works is absurd. Many people seek help in realigning their sexuality to one they would be more comfortable with. While many of the specifically Christian groups who simply tell you to "pray out the gay" probably have a high failure or relapse rate, I can assure you that change is possible. Many psychologists deal with that issue specifically, and my own therapist said she could refer me to a colleague of hers if I was ever interested in learning more about a realistic, therapeutic means to that end.
Of course, the key is a desire to change. Just as the alcoholic or drug addict gains nothing from AA or NA meetings if they don't recognize a problem, any homosexual who is coerced, pressured, or forced into treatment isn't going to come out of it straight.
Human sexuality is a much more complex machine than most give it credit for. All of us, I believe, have the capacity - if not the desire - to be gay, straight, pedophile, necro, or zoophile. To assume that sexuality cannot be altered, influenced, or outright changed in some is like saying that a person's taste in music or film can never be changed. Our tastes and desires change so frequently throughout our lives. I don't see how sexual attractions, fetishes, and habits are any exception.
"I find it elevating and exhilarating to discover that we live in a universe which permits the evolution of molecular machines as intricate and subtle as we."
-Carl Sagan
-Carl Sagan
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Embar Angylwrath
- President: Rsak Fan Club
- Posts: 11674
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:31 am
- Location: Top of the food chain
Could we change that last part to read..."When the convicted sex offender gets within 100 feet of the transmitter it gives a little buzz. a few minutes later it emits a 200,000 volt electric pulse to the gonads.Gelly kitty wrote:Perhaps only partially related to this thread but bear with me. This is on the subject of what to do with convicted pedophiles.
So we have people that commit a crime once or more likely just get caught for the first time and convicted and sentenced for a few years. Whatever the sentance it seems too small compared to the number of child molesters that repeat their crimes. But it just doesn't work in this country to put someone away for life for a first offence.
So I had an Idea and it one that we have the technology to implement in this day and age I think. Sentence any sex crime vs. a child (and I mean kiddie kid crime not just a statuatory assault) per the normal guidlines but add a lifetime sentance to where an anklet.
People have been talking about these GPS anklets on the news shows for a while now, those are not what I mean. A gps anklet will let a monitor know where the person is but really doesn't stop him from committing a crime.
I'm talking about something new. In addition to the traditional functions. The anklet has a reciever. Daycares, theme parks, zoo's, anywhere children are , by design, to congregate, get a transmitter. When the convicted sex offender gets within 100 feet of the transmitter it gives a little buzz. a few minutes later it emits a 200db siren.
Just seems like way to balance prison capacity against the safety of the community.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.
Embar
Alarius
Embar
Alarius
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superwalrus
- kNight of the Sun (oxymoron)
- Posts: 1735
- Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:44 pm
hmmm
Jarochai... I'm baffled that you would write out that long post and at the end compare sexual orientation to LIKING films / art. Simply amazing. The development of sexual identity is something completely different than personal "tastes." People develop sexual habits / orientation / fetishes due to incidents during their development as a human being. Once those neurological pathways are set, nothing short of brain surgery can remove them. Art and film and all that crap is something that changes with you as you continue to mature. These are completely different parts of the brain. Sexual desires are some of the most primitive and base parts of our brain. Taste for art / film is in a completely different and newer part of the brain.
Christ.
Walrus
Christ.
Walrus
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Jarochai Alabaster
- The Original Crayola Cleric
- Posts: 2380
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:52 pm
- Location: Behind you
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SicTimMitchell
- E Pluribus Sputum
- Posts: 5153
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:05 pm
- Location: Minneapolis, MN
- Contact:
All I can tell you, Jarochai, is that many people in the BDSM and leather communities, myself included, consider ourselves "hardwired."
A lot of us remember when any sort of SM was equated with abuse, (during the "porn wars" of the '70s and '80s). Heck, you should know that the gay leathermen back then were considered murderous, frightening sociopaths. (See the Pacino movie "Cruising.")
It's still nearly impossible to find positive portrayals of BDSM relationships in the media. (Even "The Secretary" made it seem like it's only practiced by people who are somehow damaged goods.)
I do not consider my sexual predelictions a choice. My earliest sexual fantasies were of BDSM scenarios, and no, I was not an abused child or exposed to sadomasochistic materials at an early age. (Once I was, the feeling that I was not alone was quite a relief, although I still felt like some sort of sick pervert. Just with company.)
A lot of us remember when any sort of SM was equated with abuse, (during the "porn wars" of the '70s and '80s). Heck, you should know that the gay leathermen back then were considered murderous, frightening sociopaths. (See the Pacino movie "Cruising.")
It's still nearly impossible to find positive portrayals of BDSM relationships in the media. (Even "The Secretary" made it seem like it's only practiced by people who are somehow damaged goods.)
I do not consider my sexual predelictions a choice. My earliest sexual fantasies were of BDSM scenarios, and no, I was not an abused child or exposed to sadomasochistic materials at an early age. (Once I was, the feeling that I was not alone was quite a relief, although I still felt like some sort of sick pervert. Just with company.)
Bangzoom
94 Ranger of Karana
Veteran Crew, through and through
_______________________________________________________________________________
94 Ranger of Karana
Veteran Crew, through and through
_______________________________________________________________________________
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Jarochai Alabaster
- The Original Crayola Cleric
- Posts: 2380
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:52 pm
- Location: Behind you
Bang, I completely understand, and I agree that for many people the sexual aspects of their psyche are effectively hardwired. Wether it's chemical in nature, or simply an aspect of our psychology that's set in stone for some other reason I couldn't begin to guess. What I'm trying to say is that not everyone is so hardwired.
I was bisexual. I became aware of this very early in my life, and once I was able to grasp the full ramifications of this I didn't want it. I made up my mind to pick one, and guys seemed like the natural choice since I was more comfortable with them, was able to be more honest with them, and was able to identify with and understand them better (Not to mention the sex is so much better). It took a couple years, and it was a gradual transition of lowering my interest in women. Much of it was conscious, but some of it just happened on it's own until one day I woke up and realized that I had virtually no sexual interest in women at all.
As for BDSM specifically, it's not my thing, but being gay has taught me that any sexual orientation or practice that doesn't create a victim is harmless enough that I have no place telling anyone else that what they like is "wrong."
Many pedophiles feel great remorse for their actions. A few years back I saw some report or other on sexual predators in prison fighting for the right to be castrated, in the hope that it would eliminate their sexual drive. They were denied because the procedure was considered elective. Here were people so desperate to try and fix their problem that a few of them mutilated themselves in an attempt to cut off their genitals.
I'd say that is, without a doubt, a desire to change.
I tend to think of homosexuality, pedophelia, bestiality, etc. as disorders (There's something you're not likely to hear another fag say in your life). What differentiates homosexuality from the others, however, is that it doesn't create a victim. Victimization is where I draw the line, and it's where many who are afflicted with these disorders do as well.
Blanket generalizations just piss me off. If someone says their sexuality or fetish is hardwired to them, I'll take it at face value. But when someone tries to say everyone is hardwired for the sex they like, I'll correct them. The way I see it, as a living example, I have to.
I was bisexual. I became aware of this very early in my life, and once I was able to grasp the full ramifications of this I didn't want it. I made up my mind to pick one, and guys seemed like the natural choice since I was more comfortable with them, was able to be more honest with them, and was able to identify with and understand them better (Not to mention the sex is so much better). It took a couple years, and it was a gradual transition of lowering my interest in women. Much of it was conscious, but some of it just happened on it's own until one day I woke up and realized that I had virtually no sexual interest in women at all.
As for BDSM specifically, it's not my thing, but being gay has taught me that any sexual orientation or practice that doesn't create a victim is harmless enough that I have no place telling anyone else that what they like is "wrong."
Many pedophiles feel great remorse for their actions. A few years back I saw some report or other on sexual predators in prison fighting for the right to be castrated, in the hope that it would eliminate their sexual drive. They were denied because the procedure was considered elective. Here were people so desperate to try and fix their problem that a few of them mutilated themselves in an attempt to cut off their genitals.
I'd say that is, without a doubt, a desire to change.
I tend to think of homosexuality, pedophelia, bestiality, etc. as disorders (There's something you're not likely to hear another fag say in your life). What differentiates homosexuality from the others, however, is that it doesn't create a victim. Victimization is where I draw the line, and it's where many who are afflicted with these disorders do as well.
Blanket generalizations just piss me off. If someone says their sexuality or fetish is hardwired to them, I'll take it at face value. But when someone tries to say everyone is hardwired for the sex they like, I'll correct them. The way I see it, as a living example, I have to.
"I find it elevating and exhilarating to discover that we live in a universe which permits the evolution of molecular machines as intricate and subtle as we."
-Carl Sagan
-Carl Sagan
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Gelly kitty
- Meow
- Posts: 934
- Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:34 pm
not to veer too much, but homosexuality as a disorder akin to bestiality is a little bit troubling a thought.
I've never thought of it that way. But from a purely social context it would have to be. My mum would have been more disturbed if I had come out and told her I was into labradors, but maybe not much more.
Social context is used I think most often to judge a situation compared to a purely biological one (in which I'm certain homosexuality plays a positive role). Kind of sad considering how rapidly social climates change.
Anyway, there's a quiet moment of introspection for you. move along.
I've never thought of it that way. But from a purely social context it would have to be. My mum would have been more disturbed if I had come out and told her I was into labradors, but maybe not much more.
Social context is used I think most often to judge a situation compared to a purely biological one (in which I'm certain homosexuality plays a positive role). Kind of sad considering how rapidly social climates change.
Anyway, there's a quiet moment of introspection for you. move along.
Geli Poisonstorm
65 Prophet =^..^=
Nkutani Poisonstorm
64 Rogue
<Retired>
I may be a cat, but I am also a woman. With feelings, and pride, and ... claws.
65 Prophet =^..^=
Nkutani Poisonstorm
64 Rogue
<Retired>
I may be a cat, but I am also a woman. With feelings, and pride, and ... claws.
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Alluveal
- vagina boob
- Posts: 3982
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 6:11 pm
- Location: COLORADO
With all this talk on sex offenders and the like. Does anyone else feel that the statement "rape is not sexual" is simply not true? While I think the statement can apply to some, I have a very hard time believing that most rape doesn't stem from something sexual in the mind. I mean, a man who can only get aroused or who can only climax by raping someone... how much more sexual can you get?
Just wonderin' what you all think. For the most part, I consider rape extremely sexual and not just a crime of violence.
Just wonderin' what you all think. For the most part, I consider rape extremely sexual and not just a crime of violence.
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Gelly kitty
- Meow
- Posts: 934
- Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:34 pm
I think there is alot of rape that happens that is sexual. Only the ____ speak in absolutes. I agree with the mindset that by far most rape is about power and control but I wouldn't rule out that one out of a thousand pent up fool out there.
In particular I think alot more of the "date-rape drug" rapes are sexual in nature.
In particular I think alot more of the "date-rape drug" rapes are sexual in nature.
Geli Poisonstorm
65 Prophet =^..^=
Nkutani Poisonstorm
64 Rogue
<Retired>
I may be a cat, but I am also a woman. With feelings, and pride, and ... claws.
65 Prophet =^..^=
Nkutani Poisonstorm
64 Rogue
<Retired>
I may be a cat, but I am also a woman. With feelings, and pride, and ... claws.
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Embar Angylwrath
- President: Rsak Fan Club
- Posts: 11674
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:31 am
- Location: Top of the food chain
It's a crime of violence using sex as a weapon. Pschologically, it has more in common with a mugging than it has with sex.Alluveal wrote:With all this talk on sex offenders and the like. Does anyone else feel that the statement "rape is not sexual" is simply not true? While I think the statement can apply to some, I have a very hard time believing that most rape doesn't stem from something sexual in the mind. I mean, a man who can only get aroused or who can only climax by raping someone... how much more sexual can you get?
Just wonderin' what you all think. For the most part, I consider rape extremely sexual and not just a crime of violence.
In my non-professional opinion, I would exclude date-rape from this, though. I think much of that IS sexual, and rooted in over a million years of evulotion that has produced some very strong urges to repoduce.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.
Embar
Alarius
Embar
Alarius
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Barious
- Sublime Master Elect0rzed
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:30 am
Nah that works! Once you convince someone to feel guilty about what feels natural, they're either repressing their nature, or asking for forgivness constantly.Partha wrote:So, you're also claiming that those Christian organizations that claim to be able to turn gays straight are full of hooha, too, right?
-Barious
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Arkaron
- 50 Helens Agree: Necros > All
- Posts: 1030
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