Step 1 in the death knell of EQ2...

[Kulaf]

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/ ... 7376#M7376

[Taxious]

Interesting move, but I actually agree with what they are doing. I know it will make it more of a pain to camp stuff and everyonen will run into problems raiding the same zones and junk, but as I remember it, that is what makes these games fun. Of course it's frustrating, but these are the memories about a game that people seem to keep.

The interaction with other people is what seperates MMORPGs from RPGs, so they are really just playing their best card.

Then again, I don't even play EQ2 so what do I know~

[Kulaf]

This is really a problem that they themselves created. At launch the servers were "too crowded" and they opened up unrestricted moves to expansion servers. Like on my server of Permafrost.....these unrestricted moves decimated the Freeport side of our server. This imbalance then literally forced people to create Qeynos based characters to have people to play with........so half of the world was empty.

[Josephin DuPhaedrus]

EQ2 sucks, period. I can see how players who've been there since the start have issues with the after-effects of server merges (just like in EQ), but there really aren't enough people playing on most servers and it was boring as all hell when I tried it. Not just the lack of peeps around, but the game is so freakin' linear that there was very little sense of adventure - especially having experienced the breathtaking "newness" of the original EQ world without all those whiney n00b-inspired safety nets built in.

[Ddrak]

I have to wonder where people get the "not enough people" line from when I zone into Silent City, do a /who and get 110 or more people all competing for eyes, without counting our raid that was about to go do the same thing. They'll really need to rethink that part of the Peacock Club quest if they don't want 300 people all fighting for the same stuff.

Maybe Blackburrow is the exception but I really have to say that zones don't feel any more empty on our server than they did on Brell in EQ1 during the PoP era. The fact that more popular zones (Sinking Sands) still regularly instance seems to indicate healthy population to me.

Of course, when I hear comments like Josephin's I only have to think that she made her own mind up before she even started playing. EQ2 is nowhere even close to linear, just some people seem to have linear mindsets I guess. ;)

[Riggen]

I take no pleasure in it but things are playing out pretty much like I expected since before release. If it weren't for WoW I'd probably have actually made it past level 20 in EQ2--it does at the least have a pleasant ambience.

You know what EQ2's real downfall was (for me. I use past tense because I no longer play)? Two things. You might laugh at the first. It wasn't the relative lack of soloability (which I understand is now improved somewhat), the slowness of progression, or some of the more egregiously repugnant ideas they implemented like group experience debt or death by tradeskill. No. It was the goddamned deer.

I'm serious.

I couldn't stand to look at them. They were like pudgy, misproportioned, hydrocephalatic Bambis, the lot of them. Between their freakish appearance, their almost comical attack animation, and that hideous bleating noise they made, they qualify in my book as the most unappealing mobs in all of massively multiplayer gaming. And it's illustrative of a repeating principle--humanoids in EQ2 were generally well rendered and animated, but other forms of mobs were commonly 'off' in various ways, or just plain fugly. Dd will probably remember how much EQ2's griffins bugged me.

The other reason had to do with particulars of the game's responsiveness--I have a sensitivity for that sort of thing. It 'felt' like an EQ total conversion, with the same granularity of response and the same kinds of graphics engine performance quirks as a game I'd been playing since 1999.

Between those two reasons (I really do mean it about the deer) and the availability of WoW as an alternative, EQ2 just didn't have a real chance for me to get into it.

Oh well. It was still pretty. Except for the deer.

[Partha]

I have to wonder where people get the "not enough people" line from when I zone into Silent City, do a /who and get 110 or more people all competing for eyes, without counting our raid that was about to go do the same thing. They'll really need to rethink that part of the Peacock Club quest if they don't want 300 people all fighting for the same stuff.
[...]
EQ2 is nowhere even close to linear, just some people seem to have linear mindsets I guess.

Quoted for maximum irony

[Dlaet]

Spreading populations is good thing. I play on Antonia Bayle, and have since release, so the population has always been large on my server. Many zones instance during peak hours, including a lot of lower levels zones and more centralized zones like Sinking Sands, like Ddrak mentioned Since I solo nearly exclusively (I am an anti-social loser with no goals in life), the population does not directly affect me as much. However, the large population does water down the market a lot, especially in the 20-40 range with spells/combat arts and non-rare raw materials, so profits are not always great.

EQ2 will never be as popular as WoW. However, the niche market provides people like me entertainment. The big question in my mind will be if Vanguard becomes a major competitor to WoW or due to the "toughness" discourages players. I predict Vanguard will really impact EQ1 and EQ2 the most, but time will tell.

[Nadia]

EQ2 will never be as popular as WoW. However, the niche market provides people like me entertainment. The big question in my mind will be if Vanguard becomes a major competitor to WoW or due to the "toughness" discourages players. I predict Vanguard will really impact EQ1 and EQ2 the most, but time will tell.

I know Microsoft would love to have a "mass appeal mmorpg" like SONY and Blizzard but thats not whats intended with Vanguard
- a mmorpg would have to be "solo friendly" to appeal to the masses

EQ2 is more solo friendly than the "vision" of Vanguard

http://thesafehouse.org/kb.php?mode=article&k=35

(Vanguard) will launch sometime in 2006 and has been in development since 2002.

Microsoft has a hands off approach and this game will be Sigils game not what Microsoft wants it to be. With the recent cancellation of Mythica and their Xbox title & the sell of AC back to Turbine, this is the premier flagship mmorpg for Microsoft.

There are already plans for an expansion! The future of gaming is in very good hands.

Granted, all this may change if Microsoft gets their way with getting a mmorpg for mass appeal

[Ddrak]

I have to wonder where people get the "not enough people" line from when I zone into Silent City, do a /who and get 110 or more people all competing for eyes, without counting our raid that was about to go do the same thing. They'll really need to rethink that part of the Peacock Club quest if they don't want 300 people all fighting for the same stuff.
[...]
EQ2 is nowhere even close to linear, just some people seem to have linear mindsets I guess. ;)

Quoted for maximum irony :!:

I guess I should explain that for people who aren't playing the high end EQ2 game.

To enter the final (19th) stage of the Prismatic 2.0 quest and kill the Godking (one of the toughest mobs in the game at the moment) you have to farm 9 separate eyes from named mobs that spawn from ring events in Silent City. The ring events are fast respawn but don't always pop the named. You need 9 eyes *every time* you want to enter the zone so while learning the encounter you burn a lot of time farming the silly eyes to get back in for the next time.

The Silent City population has absolutely nothing to do with linearity but has to do with what I consider bad design for that portion of the Prismatic 2.0 quest. Having to farm 9 objects for every entry is pretty silly.

As an interesting note, the fact that there are several hundred high end raiders (you have to be fairly dedicated to be capable of getting anywhere in the Godking's zone) on a server which is apparently one of the lower populations in EQ2 given it's selection for a merge highlights the fact that EQ2 really isn't "empty", or even close to it.

When Kingdom of Sky comes out next month the majority of raiding guilds will leave SC and Godking alone anyway and progress up to Vyemm's Laboratory.


I like Riggen's descriptions of how EQ2 didn't work for him. Makes me laugh as I think back on it. :)


With Vanguard, the idea that it's Sigil's game and not Microsoft's will end very quickly if population numbers are below what MS wants. That's just a fact of doing business and I would expect MS to be no different to Sony or Vivendi in that line. If WoW wasn't doing as well as it is you could easily expect Vivendi to step in and start giving Blizz direction.

[Nadia]

I would expect MS to be no different to Sony or Vivendi in that line. If WoW wasn't doing as well as it is you could easily expect Vivendi to step in and start giving Blizz direction.

I dont see how thats possible

being solo friendly is a different *game design* than being group centric

Sigil doesnt want to be a different version of EQ2 / WoW
(even if the graphics do look like EQ2 )

Sigil wants an advanced version of EQ1
- poor soloing
- poor transportation
- no instances
- slow levelling

if Microsoft wants much of WoW crowd,
Sigil will need to have fast levelling and alot of solo content for all classes

[Nadia]

http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Solo

most Vanguard content is constructed for the party encounter

[Ddrak]

Well, it's possible in the sense that Microsoft has the purse strings and can just say to Sigil "give the game more mass market appeal or we sack you and find someone who will". From there it's Sigil's problem.

Whether it will happen is a completely different question but typically little things like game design philosophy are minor roadbumps when it comes to the bottom line and maximizing returns on investment.

Dd

[Kulaf]

Well let's face it......all encounters in EQ1 were designed for a group. That doesn't mean that some of them could not be solo'd if you had the skill/gear.

I wouldn't exactly say Vanguard is going for "poor travel", they are going for meaningful travel. I don't think anyone would have had a problem with using boats in EQ1 if something actually happened while you were on the boat.

As long as things are fun.......I have no problem doing them. Time sinks are only a pain in the ass when you need to do them in a totally meaningless way. If they are designed right you can have fun doing them.

[Nadia]

it's possible in the sense that Microsoft has the purse strings and can just say to Sigil "give the game more mass market appeal or we sack you and find someone who will". From there it's Sigil's problem

if the happens - all I gotta say is.... Microsoft is the Devil

http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php?eid= ... mes+FAQ%29

18.1.19 Many MMOG’s today have been made easier, with less down time, lower risks, easy travel, etc. Do you think you will be able to recapture the sense of adventure and challenge that many of us are missing in our games today?

We're going to try, that's for sure -- and I think we can do it. While we all want fame, glory, money, etc., just as anyone else, we want MORESO to make the game we want to make, and a game that we're fairly sure a bunch of players will enjoy.

I guess, bottom line, is that if we make a game we love, and for a group of people that we've already made a game for in the past that will hopefully enjoy the new game as well, and it garners a 'mere' 400,000 or so subs... well, that would make us MUCH happier than going for the 'accessible' million-plus subscriber game, compromising what we feel is a fun and challenging game, and simultaneously taking a huge risk that we might only get 50,000 subs.

[Nadia]

I wouldn't exactly say Vanguard is going for "poor travel", they are going for meaningful travel. I don't think anyone would have had a problem with using boats in EQ1 if something actually happened while you were on the boat.

I agree poor was bad choice of words

I should have said slower transportation

[Falundir X`Viento]

I wouldn't be perticuarly worried. Yes it comes down to money, but what makes you more money? 1.2 million + subscribers who only play for 3 months, or 400k subs who play for a year.

[Falundir X`Viento]

Supplimental:

Not to mention, only having to cater to 400k means a reduced operations overhead as well.

[jookkor]

Well let's face it......all encounters in EQ1 were designed for a group. That doesn't mean that some of them could not be solo'd if you had the skill/gear.

hardly. If I remember correctly I didnt even need a group at all until lvl 5 when it was time to brave the dangers of Orc Hill.

[Barrin]

The next expansion is looking fairly good really, I dunno why they chose to do the server merges right before it, but anyone with interest is gonna love it.

I can understand the EQ2 hate tho, up till the last few months. Since then its been a lot better, like they finally realized if they didn't listen to the playerbase they were going down the toilet.