Kulaf wrote:
I personally am all for denying treatment for those who cannot pay......or at least offer trade in the form of chickens.
This might be the most inhuman thing I have ever read on this board. You would rather have people die than loose some discretionary income? Really? "Sorry Ma'am, your husband is not going to make it. You see, your credit card was declined."
I think this topic boils down into one fundamental question: Do we have a responsibility for our fellow man?
Liberals will tend to say we do, while conservatives will tend to say we don't. Personally, I feel we do up to a certain point. I believe I have a moral obligation to help those who cannot help themselves. On a corporate level, I feel my government has the same obligation to its citizens.
Do I think the government should support those too lazy to get a job? No
Do I think the government should provide jobs, or help support those who are unable to work them? Yes
Wait a minute......we have people on this board who support late term abortions......and abortion itself for that matter. People who support lethal injection and retroactive abortions of people they don't like and what I said is the most inhuman thing you have ever read on this board? Really?
I am for people paying for services rendered to them. Simple as that. Be that in for form of paying for it up front......in trade.......paying an insurance company.......or paying on installments. What I will NEVER support is people who want something......for nothing. People who go into hospitals knowing they have no means to pay......knowing they won't even make the EFFORT to try to pay what they owe.
Am I going to shed a tear when gang_banger_15000 dies because no one will treat him? Hell no.
How about the innocent kid who dies because the parents know they can never pay the bill so they don't get treatment until it's far too late? Going to shed any tears for them?
No. Just like I don't shed tears for the hundreds of thousands who died in the past because for whatever reason they could not get or could not afford treatment. That's just the way it goes. And tell me why said parents can't get on a payment plan to pay the hospital what it would cost? Are they unwilling to work the required hours it would take to save their child?
Thanks for the honesty, Kulaf. I just didn't want you hiding behind the "I don't care if gangbangers die!" bullshit. You don't care who dies as long as it saves you a few hundred bucks a year.
Has nothing to do with the money. It's a matter of principle. I don't like freeloaders in any form. Be they highly educated assholes who never pay back their student loans and expect the government to do it......or federal programs that give the poor just enough to keep them poor but never provide opportunity.......or people who want everyone else to take care of them because they are unwilling to do it for themselves.
My bottom line is this......I want what care I can pay for and nothing more. There was a time when I was underemployed......had no insurance at all. I had to stay the night in a hospital and racked up a 4k bill. I worked with the hospital and got on a payment plan and payed back every cent I owed them. If I ever got a condition that I couldn't afford to get treated.....I would expect to die. Simple as that. I don't feel that just because my mom and dad did the horizontal mombo 44 years ago that I am somehow owed the best treatment on the planet and that all of you should pay to keep me alive.
That's just not how I was raised and I refuse to support any notion of entitlement to healthcare.
I too was in a circumstance where I had some serious hospital bills. Took me over a year to pay them off. This was when I was in college and was paying my way through it. When faced with the choice of paying off my bills or eat, I chose to pay my bills, and just found a way to make it through to the next week.
You'd be surprised at the ingenuity a human can employ when he or she sets their mind to it.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.
Lurker wrote:Well, every modern society, including ours, has learned a different lesson from stories like those when it comes to health coverage.
Mmmmm.... not so much. Each individual in a society froms thier own opinion based on personal circumstances. And you can't isolate health care issues from the whole of personal experience.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.
What does personal opinion have to do with what I said? Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But values held by the majority are what mold the values of a society, good and bad. And where health care is concerned, the majority (and by default society) have learned a different lesson than you and Kulaf did.
Kulaf wrote:
Wait a minute......we have people on this board who support late term abortions......and abortion itself for that matter. People who support lethal injection and retroactive abortions of people they don't like and what I said is the most inhuman thing you have ever read on this board? Really?
Yes, it is. At least pro-choice people have more motivation behind their views than "I don't like freeloaders, let em die". The amount of greed behind your point sickens me.
What is the difference between a baby and the person working late shift at a gas station coming in with a gun shot wound? Does the sanctity of life begin at conception and end at birth? What if there is a complication during a pregnancy and both the mother and baby could die if a procedure is not done. Would you support letting an innocent baby die because the family could not afford the procedure?
I think it's great that some of you have been responsible and paid off your past medical bills. But there is a vast difference between your $4,000 bill and the bills that can get up into the hundreds of thousands of dollars for serious problems. How is someone at minimum wage supposed to pay off $100,000 of medical debt when he/she is having trouble supporting their family to begin with?
Embar Angylwrath wrote:Its the same reason I don't take 5 year olds seriously when they say they know they need another ice cream. They aren't experienced enough to know they are ignorant. Just like you and Tax.
I love how you label me as immature/ignorant just because I have a different set of goals in my life than you. I know it's hard for you to wrap your brain around, but not everyone is into the american dream of being a consumer whore. I don't need starbucks or the nicest car/house on the block and I've known that for a while now.
Just out of curiosity, how many houses and cars do you own Embar?
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Embar Angylwrath wrote:Its the same reason I don't take 5 year olds seriously when they say they know they need another ice cream. They aren't experienced enough to know they are ignorant. Just like you and Tax.
I love how you label me as immature/ignorant just because I have a different set of goals in my life than you. I know it's hard for you to wrap your brain around, but not everyone is into the american dream of being a consumer whore. I don't need starbucks or the nicest car/house on the block and I've known that for a while now.
Just out of curiosity, how many houses and cars do you own Embar?
1 and 1
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.
Fallakin Kuvari wrote:I think he labels you that way because you seem very naive.
I don't think he seems any more naive than you do. You just have opposing political views. I know plenty of mature and even old people that lived simple lives and were perfectly content in them.
It is all a matter of what you want out of life and a lot of material shit isn't necessary for everyone to be happy. That doesn't mean they don't save for retirement or unforseeable expenses - it just means they don't need what you perhaps need, or Embar needs to be happy.
Asperger's is a mental condition, not a social framework.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant
"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.
