Fundamental Differences

[Kulaf]

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... _care.html

[Harlowe]

How does that show they are not rare? They are rare as hell.

29 out of the top 100 companies in the US to work for have them. The country is not made up of these companies. It's a list of the top 100. To me, for the top 100 companies to work for, not even half of them providing on-site care is more telling. If out of the best of the best only 1/4 of them offer it, it's rare.

If you are trying to claim that on-site daycare is not rare, you are delusional.

[Kulaf]

I'm not saying it's not. But it is a benefit that people include when looking at an employers benefit package.

[Select]

Dd, that was a well-worded post and very true.

I don't know wtf Kulaf thinks people have these "options" to shop around willy nilly. Does he know what economy this is? You're freaking lucky if you have a job.

[Harlowe]

Dd, that was a well-worded post and very true.

I don't know wtf Kulaf thinks people have these "options" to shop around willy nilly. Does he know what economy this is? You're freaking lucky if you have a job.

Yeah, its seems grossly unrealistic. Over the past year, I'm certainly not hearing from other business professionals that were laid-off about how they are "shopping around" for the right job with great benefits and perks, they just want another job without taking too huge of a pay-cut.

[Select]

Mom has a job working for a town's parking authority. When she "shops" around for benefits, she looks at what towns in the the nearby counties had school systems that provided care and education for my autistic brother... and that were still close enough to work that should she need to leave work to get him in an emergency, she can. That's shopping around. It's easier to commute from a better place than it is to get a better job.

Edit: She'd also take into consideration the doctors in the area for him. She went to the doctors; she didn't have the option to choose a plan that conveniently provided them.

[Kulaf]

It's always going to be harder for a married couple with children because once again.....choices have impacts on your life. So certainly they are going to have a harder time finding what they want because they have more to consider than just themselves.

[Ddrak]

For the same reason that if I had small children I might look for a employer who offered on site childcare.

Except there's a logical reason for that one - physical presence of the mother. There's no logical reason to tie health care to employment, and doing so damages the national economy because workers are seeking jobs based on criteria other than "where can I best apply my skills". As far as I can see, tying health care to employment makes about as much sense as tying housing to employment: "Oh, I can't get a job with them, their houses have leaky roofs and you know how much more expensive it is to do it yourself".

Of course, don't start me on an economic system that makes it virtually mandatory for both parents to work. That's just as bad (if not worse) over here anyway.

Don't most health plans work from the spouse with the first birthday in the year anyway, or was I misunderstanding that clause in my insurance when I was there?

I just wonder what shithole he was living in that he had to wait 4-6 weeks to see a GP... I normally get in same day.

Pittsburgh mainly, but was the same in San Jose when I was there.

Dd

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Well I know that Pittsburgh is a shit hole, I wasn't aware that San Jose is.

[Harlowe]

Ddrak it's the same in a lot of places, it was like that in Mpls, Chicago, Scottsdale, and Santa Monica, so I think once again, Fallakin is talking out of his ass.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Ddrak it's the same in a lot of places, it was like that in Mpls, Chicago, Scottsdale, and Santa Monica, so I think once again, Fallakin is talking out of his ass.

It's not location dependent, its insurance plan dependent. I lived in San Jose too. As well as San Diego, Wichita, Sunnyvale, San Francisco, Mountain View, Laguna Niguel...

If you had to wait to see a doc for a month or better, you had a shit plan.

[Harlowe]

Most plans are shitty. They get shittier each year, because companies look to save money on their healthcare costs each year. At one company I was at we changed dental twice and our healthcare changed every year for three consecutive years. You pay more and get less.

[Kulaf]

I think the majority of the delay for most people is that when they get on their employers health plan and are told they need to choose a doctor......never do, until something happens. Then they wonder why they cannot get in imediatly to see them. A lot of doctors are simply not accepting patients because they literally cannot take on the load. That is not going to change under any plan......even the proposed changes by President Obama. A lack of doctors is always going to delay care.

[Harlowe]

I don't think that's the "majority" of people that deal with delays. It seems to me you are always looking for some "oh it's their fault" excuse for problems. It's the young adults with the designer clothes and cell phones, most of the people with appointment delays are just people waiting to long to pick a doctor/clinic.

It doesn't really make a lot of sense to always look at things that way instead of looking at the whole picture. It might be some, but it's clearly not the majority.

[Lurker]

His world view hinges on everyone else being a victim of their own bad decisions.

[Kulaf]

It doesn't really make a lot of sense to always look at things that way instead of looking at the whole picture. It might be some, but it's clearly not the majority.

LOL. So you state that it is clearly not the majority with no more certaintly than I have saying that it is.....and somehow my world view is skewed but yours isn't? Get a grip.

[Kulaf]

His world view hinges on everyone else being a victim of their own bad decisions.

You mean like all the people that got into mortgages they couldn't afford? Bought bigger houses than they could afford? Yeah I do.

And your world view is that people are so incompetent that they need government protection from making those same bad decesions you on one hand.....say they aren't makeing......and with the other.....say they are.

[Lurker]

Heh. Kulaf's favorite tactic. When wrong expand the debate.

So you don't want to back up your claim that most people don't pick a doctor and that's why they have long waits. Ok. We can discuss bad mortgages.

How many people were pushed into bad mortgages by lenders who made higher commissions on ARM's and recommended people get one even though they qualified for standard loans; lenders who figured the loans were risk free because they would get a triple-A rated insurance policy. Some oversight of the lenders and the firms committing the CDS scam would have gone a long way to preventing our economic crisis.

Sure, some borrowers were stupid and greedy but not anywhere near the majority. And yet you blame the borrowers who were, for the most part, tricked by a corrupt system. Now, I'm sure you have some anectdote that proves all the facts wrong, but that sort of proves my point.

[Kulaf]

Well since you are all about backing up claims. I await your data showing how many people got pushed into ARM's even though they could afford regular financing.

[Kulaf]

In the US it took me 4-6 weeks to get an appointment with a GP.

Let's let Dd tell us more about this if he feels comfortable doing so. I would like to know if the doctor he was trying to get in to see and already accepted him as a patient.