Lurker wrote:The revenue saving Medicare reforms scored by the CBO are already in the bill. So yeah, you are being ignorant.
Apparently Kulaf thinks he knows better than the CBO.
CBO does a 10 year estimate. Do you think if Congress back during FDR's time would have ever envisioned what we are paying right now for SS that it ever would have passed? Hell no.
One thing Partha got right......if this passes it will never go away and we will be living with it forever.
So after telling us that the health reform bill sucks because Congress will never pass a bill for Medicare reform ("I'm not ignorant! How do you like that shit sandwich!!"), then being informed that Medicare reform is already in the bill, you are just going to pivot to a totally different argument?
How about acknowledging that you were wrong first. Whack-a-mole indeed.
The problem with not passing it is you continue down the same messed up route that you've got right now. Health care in the US is in an appalling state - how anyone can think it's ok for the US to be at the bottom of the industrialized world in terms of taking care of its citizens is truly beyond me.
The GOP are completely fucked up, uncaring sons of bitches for opposing any reform that might just help people because it smells of commies and the Democrats are completely fucked up spineless idiots for not being able to go even part way to fixing the country's abandonment of its sick. Either way, you get what you deserve.
Holy shit, Fal sounded almost reasonable there, like a thinking person.
Now if we can teach him 'Whose Side Are You On?', we may have a convert.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant
"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.
I mean, seriously, have you even READ Mein Kampf? There ain't a damn thing in there about the workers or organizing, bubeleh.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant
"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.
There is a lot of bashing big business by saying they're all "dividend-hungry businessmen" who are "greedy", "ruthless", "short-sighted" and "narrow-minded".
Right, Fallakin... people who think for profit private insurance doesn't add any value to health care are the same as Nazis.
I see Fallakin has grown sooooo much since he made this same type of ignorant statement a year ago. After everyone told him what a moron he was he pretended to dial back the stupid, thanking you for the corrections. Same pattern over and over again; he shows his wingnuttiness and then tries to backtrack when called on it, and then the same ignorant statement pops up a few months later.
Lurker wrote:So after telling us that the health reform bill sucks because Congress will never pass a bill for Medicare reform ("I'm not ignorant! How do you like that shit sandwich!!"), then being informed that Medicare reform is already in the bill, you are just going to pivot to a totally different argument?
How about acknowledging that you were wrong first. Whack-a-mole indeed.
So your take on Medicare "reform" is just telling providers what the government is going to pay and freezing rates on certain services? Wow great "reform".
Well, Lurker, he self admittedly doesn't know a damn thing about much of anything. Of course, that's never stopped him from imagining shit like Naziism being a form of Communism and that anyone who gives a damn about workers rather than owners is some kind of raging hosebeast out to destroy capitalism.
Oh, by the way, Fal, you dickweed - in exactly TWO places in Mein Kampf does Hitler bash some big businessmen with those words - in throwaway comments. It's not 'a lot of bashing' by any scale. Except for the scale of the desperate arguments of a clueless nutjob.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant
"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.
My last comment was aimed at Kulaf, but yeah... Fallakin doesn't know much about anything either.
On Kulaf, it's amusing how he said he was against the health reform bill because the savings to Medicare would never be enacted, then when told it was already in the bill he switched to a cost argument, then switched again complaining that savings to Medicare isn't real Medicare reform. News flash for Kulaf: Cost savings to Medicare scored by the CBO aren't the only provisions in the bills aimed bending the long term cost curve and changing how Medicare functions. Where's that mole going to pop up next? *whack*
So your notion of SS "reform" would be freezing COLA's right? That's "reform" after all. And if there are other provisions for Medicare "reform" in the bill then by all means.....list them.
Partha wrote:Oh, by the way, Fal, you dickweed - in exactly TWO places in Mein Kampf does Hitler bash some big businessmen with those words - in throwaway comments. It's not 'a lot of bashing' by any scale. Except for the scale of the desperate arguments of a clueless nutjob.
Hitler still said it and its an ideology that you agree with.
Kulaf wrote:So your notion of SS "reform" would be freezing COLA's right? That's "reform" after all.
No, that's not my notion of "reform", it's a method of lowering costs. You said health reform was a shit sandwich because it was "predicated on Medicare reform paying for it" and Congress would never enact the cost cutting to Medicare. It was pointed out that the cost cutting was already in the bill and had been scored by the CBO. Every post you've made since has been a deflection from your original ignorant argument. You started out saying the cost savings wasn't there, then complained about the cost savings not being "real reform" as if that's all that was in the bill.
Kulaf wrote:And if there are other provisions for Medicare "reform" in the bill then by all means.....list them.
Shorter Kulaf: "I hate the reform bill even though I don't know what's in the reform bill, and what I think I know is completely wrong, but I'm not ignorant! And I still hate the reform bill!".
And what that illustrates is that even after all of those cuts that he refers to.....and what is in the bill right now......we are still facing issues with Medicare costs because until you deal with reforming the Medicare system as a whole you won't get anywhere. It's the same with Social Security. We all know what needs to happen, and that is to increase the minimum retirement age for SS to reflect the current life expectancy numbers for the US population. No one has the will to do it, but that is a sure fire way to ensure SS solvency.
Even if you think the reforms to Medicare don't go far enough (and I'd argue that the Medicare Advisory Board with expanded power will make the changes you are talking about, and that bending the cost curve for health care in general is critical to fixing Medicare) your original argument against the bill was completely wrong.
Not it doesn't. It just shifts it a bit into the future and then it's going to happen all over again. You just are so short sighted to the here and now that you don't consider the impact of this thing decades from now.
