Koran burning

[Embar Angylwrath]

Well, I'm HOPING it's a local political issue drummed up by the loony fringe in US politics. What worries me is when people I'd normally class as sensible think there's merit in the argument that they should stop the project because it's "the will of the American People" or some such platitude because if that's true then the US population actually is Islamophobic, anti-Muslim and bigoted.

So, I'm postulating that if the center gets moved then moderate Muslims will see this through exactly the same eyes that I'm seeing it - a victory for bigots and a damning indictment of US religious tolerance, not to mention a shameful case of ignorance for those who refuse to learn the difference between the 9/11 attackers and Muslims in general. I'm postulating that extremists will see this as a victory for their causes and will see it as validation for their anti-American policies. I'm thinking it's somewhat poetic irony that those bitching loudest about the center's construction are actually aiding the very terrorists they're claiming to oppose.

If, as you suggest, it's really a fringe issue that will blow over then the "outrage" will vanish soon enough and the center will go ahead. Moderate Muslims (and the rest of the world) will rest easier knowing the US hasn't bowed to windbag nuttery one more.

As you see, I don't hold the moderate Muslims in any sort of disdain or think they'll see the world any differently than I will. Like it or not, it's on the world stage and far bigger than a "local political issue". Moderates of all faiths do actually give a fuck.

Dd

Lets accept for the moment that the moderate Muslims will take away what you said they will. That, too me, doesn't equate to inflammation of the Muslim world. That, too me, is just one part of the world shaking their heads at a segment of the population of the US. The whole argument of inflaming the Muslim world if the mosque is moved just doesn't fly, if you beleive most of the Muslims worldwide are moderates. This is why I maintain moderate Muslims won't give a fuck about what happens in New York, and I'd bet they're wishing this whole thing gets settled so we can all move on. Even if that means the mosque is moved or cancelled. One mosque doesn't means shit in the grand scheme of things, especially when we're talking about 1 billion Muslims across the world.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

Did you not see my reference to Palin? Lurker injected Palin's link between the mosque and koran burning. I did not. I merely said she came out against the Koran burning, and left her spin out.

Lurker merely said you drew the same conclusion and held the same position she did, which you've demonstrated to be true. You may not have been channeling her, but you presented the same basic argument.

Either way, that doesn't answer my question. You made the comparison, then protested when Lurker and others said you made the comparison. You're dancing around admitting you made the comparison in the first place, using Palin as a scapegoat and saying "No, she said it and I'm ignoring her."

[Lurker]

I can see Embar is adding complete dishonesty to the incoherence he's already brought to this topic.

As Jarochai pointed out, Embar was the first in this thread to equate the burning books with the building the community center. That isn't something I added to the discussion. Palin wasn't "rallying around the muslims" any more than Embar was, and they both used the same line of attack. Embar was likely parroting Palin when he made this thread.

For someone who claims not to give a fuck he's going to a lot of effort to try to turn everything into some negative attack against the Imam and his project. I don't know if Embar is a bigot or is just providing cover for extremist elements in his political party. Given how twisted his logic is on this topic I'm really beginning to wonder.

[Ddrak]

Lets accept for the moment that the moderate Muslims will take away what you said they will. That, too me, doesn't equate to inflammation of the Muslim world.

The Imam never said it will inflame the Muslim world. He said it would aid the extremists in their cause, which it will. The whole mantra of the extremists is that Islam is in a jihadic war against America, so if they have a concrete example of Americans collectively and unfairly punishing Muslims then they gain credibility.

Like I said, it's ironic that those sowing the most fear about terrorists are the same ones aiding terrorists in their cause.

That, too me, is just one part of the world shaking their heads at a segment of the population of the US.

If the center gets moved from what is being called "the will of the American people", it's not "a segment" that they're shaking their heads at - it's the entire nation.

One mosque doesn't means shit in the grand scheme of things, especially when we're talking about 1 billion Muslims across the world.

That's a silly argument for quite a few reasons:

1. It means you've got some number for a count of community centers that that does matter.
2. People tend to take religion rather seriously, especially when you're hatin' on their houses of worship for dumbass reasons.
3. The Dome of the Rock is one mosque - does your argument still hold?
4. One black kid in a white school doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things either, right?

Dd

[Embar Angylwrath]

Are you seriously comparing a mosque that hasnt been built yet with the Dome of the Rock? See... that's what I'm talking about here. You guys are making this into more than it is. When you start comparing a mosque that exists in blueprint only with something like the Dome of the Rock, you've lost all rational perspective

[Ddrak]

Are you seriously comparing a mosque that hasnt been built yet with the Dome of the Rock? See... that's what I'm talking about here. You guys are making this into more than it is. When you start comparing a mosque that exists in blueprint only with something like the Dome of the Rock, you've lost all rational perspective

Nope, not at all. You're the one who used the phrase "it's just one mosque" so glibly. I was wondering how far you were willing to take it.

You're really not a good person to be commenting on rational perspective though when you started this thread comparing a burning of the Koran designed to inflame tensions with a community center that was the target of others seeking to inflame tensions.

Dd

[Partha]

Like I said, it's ironic that those sowing the most fear about terrorists are the same ones aiding terrorists in their cause.

Not ironic at all. Many of those people are looking to forment the New Crusades. Read this.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/north7.html

Folks who believe that would LOVE to see the Mideast go up in flames.

[Ddrak]

I dunno - the whole "Christians want to do X to bring about Armageddon" stuff just seems a little loopy to me.

Dd

[Partha]

It IS loopy, Dd. That's why folks like me find it so scary that the Rapture is so damn prevalent in America.

How many copies of the Tim LaHaye books have been sold already? A hell of a lot more than the five million copies of the Scofield book.