Osama Bin Laden ...dead

[Torakus]

Lol, how the fuck can they tell it has radar absorbent paint from a photograph. I love all these "experts" that crawl out of the woodwork for these things.

I don't buy that the Pakis didn't see it. People obviously heard them and that means they are flying low, but contrary to popular belief, flying low doesn't help you avoid most modern radar; I had Cuban interceptors scrambled on an SH-60 I was controlling in their airspace during a transit passage (or innocent passage I can't remember) exercise and that helo never exceeded more than 100 feet off the deck. I maintain that the PAF was notified that some a/c would be flying in the area and to leave them alone.

Tora

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 4624.story

Look at the picture. That's clearly not the standard tail rotor for a blackhawk. Also look at the casing of the tail assemblage, see how it's smoothed out? That would help reduce radar signature. Also, look at the number of blades in the rotor. It looks like there are six instead of the standard four. Increasing the number of blades, if designed right, would allow the rotor to spin more slowly, which would reduce noise.

My money is on stealth tech... not the Pakis going along with some "we didn't know they were here" charade. Low radar sigs plus NOE flight would have a good chance of spooking Paki air defenses.

[Kulaf]

The CIA has been working on quiet helicopter tech since Vietnam. There is little doubt that it is a CIA bird designed to be as quiet as possible. That does not mean it has any radar avoiding properties.....and adding more blades increases its radar signature.

And honestly....why risk not informing the Pakistan authorities. Just lie about what the copter is doing. Say it is a congressman you are escourting to some function or whatever. Why risk getting shot down?

[Torakus]

I agree that this is not a standard tail rotor for a Blackhawk, but it doesn't look all that stealthy from a noise perspective. In fact that big shield is counterproductive to reducing noise on a tail rotor, since it would tend to deflect the noise along the length of the blades rather than allowing it to radiate out like in the case of using a shrouded tail rotor. The six blade design might be a trade off between radar reflectivity and an attempt to increase the frequency of the rotor noise to make it attenuate faster.

Stealth can only do so much for you and like I said, a good deal of the area between Bagram and Abottabad is relatively flat and within radar detection range of Peshawar. I have tracked cars driving on I-5 with radars that were designed over 50 years ago to track low flying aircraft. I am pretty sure the PAF has at least that technology at their biggest operating air bases.

Tora

[Lurker]

SEALs Used Stealth Helicopter

Apparently the metal shield does act as a noise baffle and the skin of the copter is made from a fabric material. Also interesting to learn that the all electricity and cell service for that town was knocked out during the raid.

[Torakus]

SEALs Used Stealth Helicopter

Apparently the metal shield does act as a noise baffle and the skin of the copter is made from a fabric material. Also interesting to learn that the all electricity and cell service for that town was knocked out during the raid.

Lol. This is just more "experts" chiming in. That shield wont' do shit for radar or sound. Most of the sound and radar signature of the tail rotor is at the tips not at the hub. Most of the sound is radiated perpendicular to the plane of the rotor, putting a shield where it is at in the picture would only deflect more high freq noise into the plane of the rotor and presumably down to the ground. This is why every "quiet" technology helicopter you see on the market has an enclosed tail cowling. The fabric is most likely a RAM like they say, but that isn't saying much. We have been using neoprene rubber tile passive countermeasures on ships for decades. It was highly classified about 20 years ago, but by the time I retired the appropriate disposal for scraps of this was in the dumpster. Besides, all RAMs are designed to reduce effectiveness of radars of a specific frequency. It won't defeat all radars and frequency agile radars will see past if with relative ease.

This is obviously a modified helicopter with stealth features, but it sure as fuck didn't fly in formation across Pakistan undetected.

And Lol at the guy who said "Maybe an EMP!" What a fucking tard. Seems to me that the reports of internet being out conflict with the reality of the guy who TWEETED that he heard the helos over his house.

Tora

[Ddrak]

Honestly, if they wanted to be stealthy they'd have flown into Islamabad, driven up to the compound and driven back out again.

Dd

[Minute]

We've had this technology since the 80's. They even have it documented on video.

[Lurker]

And Lol at the guy who said "Maybe an EMP!" What a fucking tard. Seems to me that the reports of internet being out conflict with the reality of the guy who TWEETED that he heard the helos over his house.

Yeah, the EMP line was absurd.

Interesting information you posted. People in the area didn't say the helicopters were silent, just that they didn't hear them until they were right on top of them. When was the tweet made? During the raid?

[Fallakin Kuvari]

First tweet was made as Helicopters were flying over the guys house, end of it was around 40 minutes later when there was a loud explosion (when they blew up the crashed helicopter).

[Torakus]

And Lol at the guy who said "Maybe an EMP!" What a fucking tard. Seems to me that the reports of internet being out conflict with the reality of the guy who TWEETED that he heard the helos over his house.

Yeah, the EMP line was absurd.

Interesting information you posted. People in the area didn't say the helicopters were silent, just that they didn't hear them until they were right on top of them. When was the tweet made? During the raid?

Actually I am not entirely certain on the TWEET timing and location, but my understanding was that it was close to the compound. Regardless, even a normal H-60 is hard to hear until it is right up on you. It is hard to convince people of this, even very educated people. A few years ago I was controlling SH-60s doing counter narcotics surveillance patrols down in South America. I was having a hard time convincing my Commanding Officer that the smugglers on the fishing boats could not hear the helicopter from more than about 1500ft away. He did not believe me until I had him stand on the bridge wing of the ship and had one of my other controllers have the helo do a pass down the side of the ship at 500 yards. He became a believer. Most of the noise is directed straight up and straight down and most of the tail rotor noise that transmits straight out from the tail is high frequency and attenuates rapidly.

I did talk to some guys who do work on helo modernization programs at work today and they said the shield shape might actually work well at scattering radar (but they are radio experts not radar) but would not prevent a pulse doppler radar from tracking and classifying it.

I for one would love to see this new stealth helicopter. If it did get across Pakistan undetected then I am extremely impressed. If the pilots ingressed and egressed NOE at night over multiple lit areas (meaning no NV since even the best pilots need time to goggle up and goggle down) and even more unlit areas of rough terrain, then they are my fucking heroes.

Tora