The first debate

[Harlowe]

First one goes to Romney. Not that it will make people switch parties, but doing well energizes the base and turn-out is everything in a winner-takes-all electorate game. Obama didn't seem to come prepared for the total switcheroo that Romney did with regard to his policy agenda. Romney came off far more moderate than he has been on the compaign trail and nowhere near Ryan. Not even in his ballpark.

Romney lied, a lot, he came off as an insurance salesman, so Obama could have gone at him from so many angles it wasn't funny, but Obama seemed utterly unprepared for his about face. He didn't call him on major issues he should have and overexplained everything else. He needs to train with Clinton hardcore man.

Oh and Lehrer blows as a moderator. He had no control, not over the speakers and not over his own pissy attitude.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Yep. Romney wiped the floor with Obama. The only person that did worse in that debate than Obama was Leher. What was he, a replacement official?

I think Obama came with the strategy that Romney was going to fight in the gutter, and his response would be to remain above it all and look more presidential. However, Romney was well prepared and well coached, and didn't go on a personal attack. He stayed focused on Obama's policies. He smiled all the time, looked energetic, sounded positive, and was able to connect in a positive emotional way with his audience, something he's struggled with up until now. Obama on the other hand frowned, shook his head, was hesitant, stumbled and had a tone of exasperation. It reinforced the notion he's helpless without a telepromter. It also didn't help that he nodded in agreement with many of the statements Romney made, lending credibility.

Loved the Romney comment about trickle down government. That was a hoot! I also loved the comment about having 5 small boys at home who keep repeating a statement hoping that Romney would eventually take it as truth, and painting Obama with that picture.

[Lurker]

Obama wasn't prepared to debate someone who lied as blatantly and consistently as Romney did. Like Harlowe said, Romney did a "total swicheroo" with his policy proposals and lied about the rest. It's a continuation of the 'big lie' strategy that he's relied on throughout the campaign. Obama will need to do a much better job next time explaining to the audience that they are being lied to.

[Kulaf]

A good debater takes notes. Ronald Reagan won the debates he was in because he caught his opponent reversing course on issues as he took notes and called him on it with the now famous, "Well........there you go again." My guess is President Obama over prepared. He is a natual speaker and the timed 2 minute reponse format plays against his strength. In an open floor "townhall" debate, the President wins because Romney doesn't relate well in that environment when he has to give an indepth answer and not just a sound bite.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Obama wasn't prepared to debate someone who lied as blatantly and consistently as Romney did. Like Harlowe said, Romney did a "total swicheroo" with his policy proposals and lied about the rest. It's a continuation of the 'big lie' strategy that he's relied on throughout the campaign. Obama will need to do a much better job next time explaining to the audience that they are being lied to.

How could he not be prepared for that? That should have been easy for anyone to do. Simply stating that Romney was reversing course and explaining the differences between his "new" policy positions and old ones, should have been a piece of cake. No one has to prepare for that, its a natural.

And that still doesn't explain why Obama stammered, stuttered, seemed unable to convey his own messages, agreed with Romney on Medicare, agreed with him on other points, looked pouty, bored, like the debate was somehow beneath him. Obama has a Hollywood smile, and he rarely used it. Dude was really off his game.

[Harlowe]

This amused me, and I enjoyed seeing him find some fight in him.

http://wonkette.com/485946/dry-your-eye ... -president
Obviously not an Obama quote...its Wonkette

Now you can put down the razor blade, take the hose out of the gas pipe, un-noose yourself … and, er, all the other ghastly ways the Virgin Suicides suicided themselves. We’re sorry B. Barry Bamz was a little boring last night, but for sweet Jesus’s sake, he wasn’t that bad. You are all acting like a Dem parody with your defeat-snatching and your waaah. Now buck the fuck up, you tedious shitstains, and get a little love in your heart.

I agree with all three of you, Lurker - spot on, but he should have expected it and prepared, Kulaf - he absolutely should have taken a cue from Reagan, kept track and called him out as they went along, it would have really cemented a message and Townhalls definitely work better for his style, he doesn't do well being limited to a 2 min response (maybe Clinton could help him with that) and Embar - agree, there was no reason not to be ready for an avalanche of bs.

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/bid ... 53666.html

Doesn't help that Biden is all "Damn right we want a trillion in taxes!!!!"

[Lurker]

Doesn't help that Biden is all "Damn right we want a trillion in taxes!!!!"

From your link in case nobody clicks it.

"On top of the trillions of dollars of spending that we have already cut, we’re gonna ask – yes – we’re gonna ask the wealthy to pay more," said Biden. "My heart breaks, come on man. You know the phrase they always use? Obama and Biden want to raise taxes by a trillion dollars. Guess what? Yes we do in one regard. We want to let that trillion dollar tax cut expire so the middle class doesn’t have to bear the burden of all that money going to the super wealthy. That’s not a tax raise, that’s called fairness where I come from."

The majority of Americans agree with Biden on this issue The reason Romney had to lie about his tax plan in the debate is because Romney's proposal is extremely unpopular. So yeah, it actually does help.

[Lurker]

Obama on the campaign trail today...

Governor Romney may dance around his positions, but if you want to be President, you owe the American people the truth.

"So here's the truth: Governor Romney cannot pay for his $5 trillion tax plan without blowing up the deficit or sticking it to the middle class. And we can't afford to go down that road again. We can't afford another round of budget-busting tax cuts for the wealthy. We can't afford to gut our investments in education or clean energy or research and technology. We can't afford to rollback regulations on Wall Street banks or big oil companies or insurance companies. We cannot afford to double down on the same top-down economic policies that got us into this mess. That's not a plan to create jobs. That's not a plan to grow the economy. That's not a change -- that is a relapse.

and Obama's first post debate ad...



Romney's serial dishonesty is going to have a bigger impact than this debate.

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... _blog.html

Some fact checking for both sides.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/bid ... 53666.html

Doesn't help that Biden is all "Damn right we want a trillion in taxes!!!!"

And it'll come on the backs of the Middle class: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/Uploaded ... -cliff.pdf

[Lurker]

And it'll come on the backs of the Middle class

You linked to a study about the effects of going over the fiscal cliff. In the quote Embar linked, Biden was talking about raising taxes for high wage earners, a position that most Americans support. The fiscal cliff is a completely different issue and it's situation that Obama desperately wants to avoid. We'll only go over the fiscal cliff if Congress fails to act. So why did you read Bidens comment, link a study about something unrelated, and say "it'll come on the backs of the middle class"? You seem to be deeply confused.

[Ddrak]

Here's the guy that was apparently absent last night:



Also, allegedly 27 lies in 38 minutes from Romney.

I do think we'll hear a lot more of "trickle-down government", which has to be the most ironically tragic term I've heard from the GOP *ever*, but how that plays out with the general population is anyone's guess.

Dd

[Partha]

Obama should have been a football fan, so that he would learn that the prevent defense doesn't prevent anything except you winning the game.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

And it'll come on the backs of the Middle class

You linked to a study about the effects of going over the fiscal cliff. In the quote Embar linked, Biden was talking about raising taxes for high wage earners, a position that most Americans support. The fiscal cliff is a completely different issue and it's situation that Obama desperately wants to avoid. We'll only go over the fiscal cliff if Congress fails to act. So why did you read Bidens comment, link a study about something unrelated, and say "it'll come on the backs of the middle class"? You seem to be deeply confused.

Page 3 "Impending Tax increases"

Federal taxes are scheduled to rise in 2013 for six reasons

And yes, only if Congress fails to extend tax cuts that Obama wants ended in the first place.

[Lurker]

And yes, only if Congress fails to extend tax cuts that Obama wants ended in the first place.

Again, you seem deeply confused.

Here's what's on the page you reference. Can you point out which listed tax cuts Obama wants ended and for which income group?

Impending Tax Increases
Federal taxes are scheduled to rise in 2013 for six reasons. First, most of the Bush-era tax cuts that were enacted in 2001 and 2003 and extended for an additional two years at the end of 2010 are again set to disappear. Second, some of the temporary tax cuts that were part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) and also extended at the end of 2010 will expire. Third, Congress has not acted on dozens of short-term tax breaks that are regularly extended. Fourth, the payroll tax cut, always intended to be temporary, is set to expire after a two-year run. Fifth, new taxes enacted in 2010’s Affordable Care Act (ACA) will take effect in tax year 2013. Finally, the AMT “patch” that protects tens of millions of taxpayers from additional taxes expired at the end of 2011. Unless Congress extends the patch retroactively, many taxpayers will owe AMT on their 2012 tax returns (the tax returns that people will file in early 2013).

If we do go over the fiscal cliff, the most likely cause will be that Republicans refuse to extend tax cuts that help the middle class unless they also get the cuts for the wealthy. At which point you, in your deep confusion, will attack Obama.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Unless the Republicans extend it and Harry Reid sits on it and does nothing.

[Partha]

I love the cognitive dissonance. Wingers insist that we treat the government's finances like a household's finances, but yet their first solution in every situation involving government finances is to cut taxes. That's the equivalent of being in debt and responding by going to your boss and demanding a pay cut so you'll be responsible.

[Garrdor]

Republicans trickle their champagne piss down onto my face from marble balconies