Best Sci-Fi of the past 25 Years....

Alluveal · Post by **Alluveal** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:37 pm

Still don't buy it. The midichlorians make it--it's all about genetics, not about mysticism. It's not like someone without midichlorians can suddenly tap into the power of the force and use it. It requires training to utilize what your body has, yes, but it's no more than teaching yourself math or how to read and write.

As for LOTR, can't even compare that to Star Wars. LOTR is all about magic/myth/spirituality. Different animal completely.

Kulaf · Post by **Kulaf** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:58 pm

I am sort of astonished that you don't see the Force as being metaphysical. Mind manipulation, force push, force lightning, foretelling the future. Exactly which of the known universal forces are being manipulated to pull all of that off?

Ohh and may Gravity be with you......always.

Alluveal · Post by **Alluveal** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:27 pm

The universal forces "known" to us in the here and now are probably a lot less evolved and advanced than the Star Wars universe. Just because we can't apply math and science to it now doesn't mean that it's not possible in the future, through science.

Kind of reminds me of the technomages from B5. Magic isn't magic. It's science. Same goes for Star Wars in my mind.

Kulaf · Post by **Kulaf** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:51 pm

I'm not sure what book it is in.....but there are creatures in the Star Wars universe that are not affected by the Force. I really cannot envision any living creature not being affected by a fundamental universal force.

Jarochai Alabaster · Post by **Jarochai Alabaster** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:39 pm

The hideous green flying guy that owned Anakin and his mother in Ep 1. He was unaffected by force manipulation. WTF was his name?

-=Xilanthanax=- · Post by **-=Xilanthanax=-** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:44 pm

Watto.

Alluveal · Post by **Alluveal** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:34 pm

I'm not sure what book it is in.....but there are creatures in the Star Wars universe that are not affected by the Force. I really cannot envision any living creature not being affected by a fundamental universal force.

Hmmmmmmmmm..... interesting point. Now I need to ponder this a little more.

Kulaf · Post by **Kulaf** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:45 pm

Jarochai Alabaster wrote:The hideous green flying guy that owned Anakin and his mother in Ep 1. He was unaffected by force manipulation. WTF was his name?

That's not quite what I am talking about. Only the weak minded are affected by that force trick. The creatures I refer to are simply not effected by the Force. You could shoot force lightning at them and they would not be harmed in the slightest.

Bahd Zoolander · Post by **Bahd Zoolander** » Thu May 10, 2007 6:53 am

The Ysalamiri create a bubble around themselves where the force cannot be used.

Post by **Ddrak** » Thu May 10, 2007 8:15 am

Star Wars is most accurately described as a space fantasy. It's a lot like the D&D Spelljammer stuff, or Warhammer 40k, or even the Final Fantasy series (think FF12 but just replace "mist" with "mitichlorians") - essentially what happens if you take a fantasy setting and translate it into an area where high technology also exists.

Sure, it's not "high fantasy" but it is certainly sword (lightsaber) and sorcery (the force). You can't call the force anything but metaphysical - after all in a pure fantasy setting (say LOTR), what's to say they couldn't explain away magic with a similar plot device.

B5 has fantasy elements, but is primarily science fiction. The Vorlons most particularly are approaching fantasy in their abilities. Technomages - not so much, but a little. It's all a little metaphysical in nature.

Star Trek even has some fantasy elements, though psychic powers (mind melds etc.) are a really fine like between the two. Typically a sci-fi setting will bring fantasy elements in just because a strong plot typically needs something to offset the impersonal nature of technology with something more personal. "Good" and "evil" having physical manifestation is a core fantasy element, for example - when you see in in sci-fi then it's crossing from technology into fantasy.

Dd

Alluveal · Post by **Alluveal** » Thu May 10, 2007 9:45 am

Not sure on B5. I think the Vorlons are as they are because they evolved into telepathic beings. I don't think telepathy is at all fantasy-based in B5. First off, the Psi-cops could put you on the sleeper drugs, which would block your abilities. Second, Edgar Industries made a "virus" that only effected telepaths. So, this tells me fully genetic/bio-engineered. As a matter of fact, I think the Vorlons created telepaths among the lesser races through experimentation.

I don't know what other "magical" abilities they may have. I'm trying to remember if they ever claimed to be able to see into the future. I'm not sure they did. The Centauri, on the other hand, had oracles and prophets. That may be considered a bit magical, but I think Vorlons are the way they are simply because they kick evolutionary ass. =)

I'm almost there on Star Wars being a space fantasy, though, but still trying to work stuff out in my head.

jookkor · Post by **jookkor** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:00 pm

whatabout stargate?? I really like that show sometimes. And Deep space nine when everybody was fighting the 10 000 year old empire of cranky horned clones. And farscape isnt even on the list? I hated that show and watched like 2 minutes of it when it was being made but now I am going back and watching it and its fairly amusing at times. (I like the frog guy that shits everywhere and the symbiote that flies the ship. Not a fan of the human protagonist but I am only a few episodes in. And wow, claudia black was cute at one point wtf happened on stargate??)
b5 was decent too. I hated it and thought it was garbage when it was new but when i watched it on reruns I started getting into it and alot of it was really decent. (until of course, all of the plot hooks got unraveled and fully unveiled and didnt live up to the suspense but thats the nature of the beast with any show)

And startrek enterprise was great during the period where archer was all paranoid and even hostile towards any unknown alien, and had no prime directive to hold him back.

jookkor · Post by **jookkor** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:05 pm

and whats with arguments about fantasy in science fiction? Sometimes their plot demands characters who have to be more powerful then the protagonists, who of course fly around on ships shooting laser beams and can wipe out a solar system if they get annoyed and go around demolecularizing themselves and mucking about with time travel and such. Naturally there has to be beings with greater abilities but although their abilities may seem magical they are usually explained away as being a result of a longer or vastly different evolutionary process, or advanced technology.

Riggen · Post by **Riggen** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:17 pm

Roll your eyes if you want to, but its contribution and presence are undeniable -- Stargate. B5 definitely deserves a place on the list, as does the Fifth Element.

It probably wasn't well known enough, but I liked Strange Days a lot too. Dark City was definitely worth a mention. Minority Report was better than a third of the list. And where's Tron?

Come to think of it that list makes EW sound pretty dumb. Where the hell is the original Star Wars trilogy? I mean WTF the Clone Wars? I'd sooner take Space Hunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone.

Fallakin Kuvari · Post by **Fallakin Kuvari** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:28 am

Riggen wrote:Come to think of it that list makes EW sound pretty dumb. Where the hell is the original Star Wars trilogy? I mean WTF the Clone Wars? I'd sooner take Space Hunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone.

Read: Past 25 years. Only one of the original qualifies, Return of the Jedi... which is still better than most of the list.

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Tue May 15, 2007 10:53 am

The best way to describe Sci-Fi and Fantasy is what I heard from Orson Scott Card (true for books and honestly true for movies as well)

Sci-fi is rivets and Fantasy is forests.

As honest as I have to be that Farscape is a fantasy story it undeniably will be categorized as sci-fi.

Alluveal · Post by **Alluveal** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:05 pm

Rsak, my dad has been trying desperately to get me into the Ender series (is that right?) I need something fun to read over the break, so I may try it. I've heard great things.

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:21 pm

Ender's Game is one of if not my favorite book. If you like it you should like the rest but understand the shadow series is the same time frame, while the Ender series continues with another story line (but better imo).

superwalrus · Post by **superwalrus** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:27 pm

Ender's Game is great, like the Dune series I got lost after the initial first few good books.

Walrus

Finglefinn · Post by **Finglefinn** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:30 pm

I thought that Dreamcatcher was some darn good sci-fi, from a so called "horror" writer. I think that it is a gross misrepresentation of Stephen King to classify him as a horror writer.

Brell Rants

Best Sci-Fi of the past 25 Years....

hmmm