Is the Obama economic plan working?

[Lurker]

Don't you have a lawless coup to cheer on somewhere?

[Kulaf]

The scary part for me is that even as we debate the merits of the bailout and whether or not it was even successful.......plans push forward to totally revamp the healthcare of this country. Knowing what we know now I think we can assume the following about this planned Healthcare revamp:

1) The Obama administration does not have the "complete information" they require to formulate said plan.
2) Said plan is proped up by a faulty recovery timeline which itself was based on "incomplete information."
3) This plan is going to be so massively underfunded it won't even be funny.

[Trollbait]

1) The Obama administration does not have the "complete information" they require to formulate said plan.
2) Said plan is proped up by a faulty recovery timeline which itself was based on "incomplete information."
3) This plan is going to be so massively underfunded it won't even be funny.

LOL

[Fallakin Kuvari]

[Trollbait]

Can we get a Comedy Czar appointed so we can properly make fun of the number of Czars?

[Lurker]

The scary part for me is that even as we debate the merits of the bailout and whether or not it was even successful.......plans push forward to totally revamp the healthcare of this country.

There's very little similarity between the two. Healthcare and ways to reduce cost have been studied for decades. We have real life examples of what works and what doesn't work, both in this country and around the world.

You can't compare that to a fluid, rapidly worsening economic crisis. Yeah, things turned out to be much worse than people thought. That doesn't mean that the actions taken to address it were the wrong ones. It could argued that we didn't take big enough action, that the stimulus wasn't bold enough, but the basics of what we did are economically sound and they have helped.

Will the healthcare reform be underfunded? Hopefully not. Obama budgeted 600 billion over 10 years, not counting savings in Medicare that he's proposed, and Congress is looking at other revenue sources. After so many years of completely unfunded items (like tax cuts and wars and prescription drug benefits) it's nice that they are at least putting this reform on the budget.

And Jecks and Fallakin, so sorry for implying over the years that you two are morons. Your contributions to these discussions are immeasurable.

[Partha]

Yep, I blame Obama for not being able to stop a worldwide depression in four months. I mean, just because the last one even remotely this size took nearly four years to fix doesn't excuse him at all. I'm sure George Bush's 'plan' for a tax cut for large businesses and multibillionaires would have resulted in them buying enough extra yachts, mansions, and handbags to keep the world economy afloat at a stronger level than before in mere WEEKS, let alone MONTHS.

[Lurker]

Careful, Partha.

Your sarcasm might bruise some tender feelings, and someone will stamp his feet and wave his fists and tell you to grow up.

[Trollbait]

Your contributions to these discussions are immeasurable.

So that is a no on the Comedy Czar?

[Fallakin Kuvari]

I'm not allowed to put a in when I think something is funny?

Sorry, I thought this was a message board... not a "Serious Discussions Only" Board.

[Harlowe]

I'm sure George Bush's 'plan' for a tax cut for large businesses and multibillionaires would have resulted in them buying enough extra yachts, mansions, and handbags to keep the world economy afloat at a stronger level than before in mere WEEKS, let alone MONTHS.

[Ddrak]

The ad homeniem in this thread makes me sad!

[Fallakin Kuvari]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... StZd9y2rCY

$787 billion stimulus bill “has worked as intended”

It has already extended unemployment insurance and health insurance to those who have lost their jobs in this recession

state deficits would be nearly twice as large as they are now, resulting in tens of thousands of additional layoffs -- layoffs that would affect police officers, teachers, and firefighters.

wasn’t designed to restore the economy to full health on its own, but to provide the boost necessary to stop the free fall.

He's joking right? He has to be joking...

1) It may be working as intended, since they say it should work over an 18 month period (not 5 months).

2) Basically he has created wards dependent on the state for their livelihood. Next: state jobs for all of them.

3) I highly doubt that state deficits would be twice as large as they are now, if hes going to say something like this he should have the numbers to back it up present with him (instead the media will just run it as if its the word of God).

3a) The first place to cut is never Public Safety or Education, in contrast to what the Liberals like to make the general public believe. The first places to cut should be unnecessary spending (read: save such and such animal fund, build an exhibit for rare animal at the zoo, etc.), construction projects (how are wider highways going to help traffic when traffic is already lessened do to people being laid off?), Green Energy agendas (handing out free light bulbs to the entire state... like NJ). The fact of the matter is that the Liberals use police officers, teachers and firefighters as a scare tactic. The sad part is that people actually believe these lies.

4) Hint at a second (unsustainable) stimulus down the road? Maybe they'll just sneak it into C&T or Health Care...

[Harlowe]

The fact of the matter is that the Liberals use police officers, teachers and firefighters as a scare tactic. The sad part is that people actually believe these lies.

I don't think either side is going to win in a "which scare tactics liberals/conservatives use that people actually believe" fight.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

You're right, both sides use their fair share of scare tactics.

[Harlowe]

Didn't he state in his radio address this week that there would not be a second stimulus package?

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Yes in fact he did. Bloomberg seemingly forgot to include that.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31862083/ns/us_news/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07 ... -recovery/

Thanks for correcting me on that, Harlowe.

[Harlowe]

No problem - see Ddrak, Fall and I can play nice. =)

[Lurker]

3) I highly doubt that state deficits would be twice as large as they are now, if hes going to say something like this he should have the numbers to back it up present with him (instead the media will just run it as if its the word of God).

He has the GAO numbers to back him up. I wouldn't expect him to extend his radio address to 30 minutes and pull out charts like Ross Perot. The numbers are readily available.

The first place to cut is never Public Safety or Education, in contrast to what the Liberals like to make the general public believe.

Those areas are almost always the first cut. Look at what's happening in California. When States need to make huge budget cuts they go after the areas where the money is and where they have the most control. The other things you mention wouldn't provide any noticible savings.

Green energy agendas are one of the best bang for the buck stimulus areas. They not only create jobs in the short term, they create savings in the long term that pays for the initial cost.

Remember, in a demand recession reducing government spending in the short term and worrying about the deficit would be a bad thing. Hoovers policies didn't work.

Here's Obama's weekly address. I thought he did a good job knocking down some of the nonsense where people claim the Recovery Act has failed.

[Kulaf]

For me it is not a question of whether or not it has failed, or suceeded for that matter. The question lies in are we getting everything we can for what we are spending? What I wonder is where is the Congressional body watchdogging every single project that is receiving federal money to make sure that things are getting done. I think back to stories about Harry Truman during his time as a Senator touring the country inspecting sites that were receiving federal dollars to help the war effort and finding idle workers sitting at sites getting paid for doing nothing because no one was managing the project. And if you think things like that aren't happening right now you have much more faith in the government than I do.

Anyone can crank up the printing presses and toss money at a problem.....the follow through and execution are the tough parts. I have not as yet seen or heard much about this segment of the economic plan.