Disney Buys Lucasfilm. 3+ New Star Wars Movies Planned

[Kulaf]

I thought it was a fun movie and I enjoyed it more before really digging into the Star Trek franchise like I have over the past few years, but it's an abomination in the sense that it totally sold out the franchise to JJ fuckin Abrams and his crew. It basically killed a franchise that stayed pretty consistent with it's roots and Roddenberry's vision. If you weren't a fan of it before and you like flashy, generic Abrams stuff, then you won't get what a bummer it kind of is.

I'm no trekkie, I wasn't an old school Star Trek fan (though I do like the movies), but I am a big Next Generation, DS9, Voyaguer, Enterprise fan. With the loss of Roddenberry and Paramount green-lighting Abrams & Kurtzman/Orci (the Mission Impossible/Transformer guys) to reboot it instead of going with the reboot proposals by Jonathon Frakes, William Shatner or J. Michael Straczynski (Babylon 5), yep it's sad. I believe they would have kept the feel of a great franchise and it would have felt like a continuation of Roddenberry's vision. These guys turned it into a Mission Impossible/Transformer feeling movie, because that's what these three guys do. It has zero connection to the rest of the franchise, it's a true reboot....leave your nostaligia behind.

Well, I respectfully disagree. I think it is perfectly consistent with his vision of Star Trek. His wife Majel in fact died shortly after completing voice over work as the ships computer for the movie. I don't think she would have done that if she hadn't approved of the movie. His son Rod was interviewed by the LA Times after seeing the movie......which he had approved as the head of Roddenberry Entertainment:

"I began very apprehensive. Someone new was coming in, and they were gonna do my dad's 'Star Trek.' And they even put a commercial out saying, 'This is not your father's "Star Trek," ' which concerned me for two reasons: my love, my respect for my father and what that name means to fans and the fans' expectations. . . . When I saw it, I was blown away. . . . I'm guessing that [writers Alex] Kurtzman and [Roberto] Orci, being fans of 'Star Trek,' kept it true to the philosophy, kept it true to the timeline, and they were able to take their own timeline to make changes. And J.J. made it a roller-coaster ride for everyone to enjoy. They made 'Star Trek' cool again."

I have no doubt there are people who don't like Abrams. And I am sure there are people who would have loved to see Shatner or Frakes do the reboot so we got another Final Frontier or First Contact and it would have been like I was sitting in my living room watching Star Trek on TV.....aka borring. People like the franchise on TV because of character development over time. Movies don't have that luxury.

The franchise needed to grab new fans, not continue to appeal to the fans from the 60's or the 90's. That's why it split off into an alternate reality so the old fan boys can clutch their Shatner dolls and not feel threatened. The reboot of Sherlock Holmes was a success.......and it has literally nothing to do with the character that Doyle created. You don't need to hold on to dogma when you are trying to birth a new franchise.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

Well, I respectfully disagree. I think it is perfectly consistent with his vision of Star Trek. His wife Majel in fact died shortly after completing voice over work as the ships computer for the movie. I don't think she would have done that if she hadn't approved of the movie. His son Rod was interviewed by the LA Times after seeing the movie......which he had approved as the head of Roddenberry Entertainment:

"I began very apprehensive. Someone new was coming in, and they were gonna do my dad's 'Star Trek.' And they even put a commercial out saying, 'This is not your father's "Star Trek," ' which concerned me for two reasons: my love, my respect for my father and what that name means to fans and the fans' expectations. . . . When I saw it, I was blown away. . . . I'm guessing that [writers Alex] Kurtzman and [Roberto] Orci, being fans of 'Star Trek,' kept it true to the philosophy, kept it true to the timeline, and they were able to take their own timeline to make changes. And J.J. made it a roller-coaster ride for everyone to enjoy. They made 'Star Trek' cool again."

I have no doubt there are people who don't like Abrams. And I am sure there are people who would have loved to see Shatner or Frakes do the reboot so we got another Final Frontier or First Contact and it would have been like I was sitting in my living room watching Star Trek on TV.....aka borring. People like the franchise on TV because of character development over time. Movies don't have that luxury.

The franchise needed to grab new fans, not continue to appeal to the fans from the 60's or the 90's. That's why it split off into an alternate reality so the old fan boys can clutch their Shatner dolls and not feel threatened. The reboot of Sherlock Holmes was a success.......and it has literally nothing to do with the character that Doyle created. You don't need to hold on to dogma when you are trying to birth a new franchise.

You'd think with all that work put into "birthing a new franchise," they could have just written something original and not called it Star Trek. It's like turning Super Mario into a FPS. It may still be a good game (Or it may not, as Star Trek reboot incidentally wasn't even a decent film in a vacuum) but it's not "Super Mario" anymore, and doesn't need or deserve the name. Hell, look at the WWZ trailer. It's not even remotely based on its source material, and carries the same name exclusively as a money grab. Same damn thing. Star Trek reboot isn't based on the source material.

[Kulaf]

That's like saying that the Expanded Universe has nothing to do with Lucas's vision of Star Wars.

"Star Trek reboot isn't based on the source material."

Now that is just silly.

[Harlowe]

That's your opinion Kulaf and I still disagree and I'm not some nostalgic old fanboy collecting memorabilia. I'm someone that watched the movie, thought it was pretty good - then dived into the series over the past couple years and thought, wow, that movie actually kind of sucked. I think the deluge of things on TV and in theaters getting the transformer-JJ Abrams & crew treatment is what is truly dull. I've seen multitudes of films that were able to develop characters within the scope of a film, so that's just an absolute cop out. It doesn't take a series to have a good character-driven movie, even in fantasy and sci-fi. I'm sure some people love it, I just don't and can definitely see now the viewpoint of those that think it sucks relative to the vast source material.

[Harlowe]

Just to add, disagreeing on movies or music is a bit ridiculous, because everyone likes what they like. I just am sick to death of JJ Abrams' touch everywhere in general. It's the same shit over and over again. IIRC I think he even reused some Transformer shit in another movie(s) - or maybe that was MIchael Bay...another person I'm sick of.

[Massterloo]

Birth a new franchise.....with the old Franchise name......why bother with old characters/races, if your gonna make new characters? - To grab the money from the fanboys. You know...us shitty little worthless fans from the 60s-90s. Why not make Kirk a Vulcan, Spock black, and Uhura a Scotsman. And no, I don't want Shatner or Frakes do the reboot. I just wanted a good, and exciting movie without all the "what the fuck?" moments.

Lets look at some of these "what the fuck?" moments in chronalogical order.

The Federation, before Kirk, and Spock were cadets had a division of Time police that might want to make sure Vulcan survives.
They got 129 years to prevent it / evacuate Romulus. I could excuse Nero not thinking of this – he went crazy from grief. But what about everyone else. If Romulus is never destroyed doesn’t the timeline correct itself.

Uhura at one time had a crush on Kirk......but her and a horny Spock? Really?!

While in the acadamy Kirk cheats to beat the unwinnable simulation. This was suposed to be somewhat of a secret, and was seen as taking initiative. In the reboot the whole universe knew about it, and almost sent him to jail. I think they were about to sentence him to be kicked in the dick by Spock so hard he was going to be sent into the sun.

Where was the Irish kid that abused the hell out of Kirk while in the Acadamy?

The movie jumps the shark (with just plan bad writting) when Kirk crash lands on the ice planet/moon.
He just happens to crash within a few miles of Spock?
Spock is placed within walking distance of a Federation outpost, and is waiting for… ? The one thing he could not know of ahead of time...that kirk is about to be sent there. Sadly he didnt enter earlier.....you know to try to send word to his planet of its doom.
Scotty just happens to be stationed at this outpost? Maybe he knew how to work a radio, or communicator.
Spock doesn’t go with Kirk because he doesn’t want to hurt the bonding experience for Kirk & Spock? Seriously? I think the timeline is already scewed.

BTW - Vulcan has no moon. (very fanboy...but a major point)


Shall we talk about why there has been no part 2, 3 or 4?.........Cause Spock is there to warn everyone about every bad thing that happens for the next 129 years.


Birth a new franchise? - Write something original.
Reboot a franchise? - Write something good. The reboot of Sherlock Holmes was a success - It was written well.

[Kulaf]

The thing is Harlowe.....it's not just my opinion. The movie received stellar reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and nearly every respected critic loved the film.

[Kulaf]

Birth a new franchise.....with the old Franchise name......why bother with old characters/races, if your gonna make new characters? - To grab the money from the fanboys. You know...us shitty little worthless fans from the 60s-90s. Why not make Kirk a Vulcan, Spock black, and Uhura a Scotsman. And no, I don't want Shatner or Frakes do the reboot. I just wanted a good, and exciting movie without all the "what the fuck?" moments.

Lets look at some of these "what the fuck?" moments in chronalogical order.

The Federation, before Kirk, and Spock were cadets had a division of Time police that might want to make sure Vulcan survives.
They got 129 years to prevent it / evacuate Romulus. I could excuse Nero not thinking of this – he went crazy from grief. But what about everyone else. If Romulus is never destroyed doesn’t the timeline correct itself.

Uhura at one time had a crush on Kirk......but her and a horny Spock? Really?!

While in the acadamy Kirk cheats to beat the unwinnable simulation. This was suposed to be somewhat of a secret, and was seen as taking initiative. In the reboot the whole universe knew about it, and almost sent him to jail. I think they were about to sentence him to be kicked in the dick by Spock so hard he was going to be sent into the sun.

Where was the Irish kid that abused the hell out of Kirk while in the Acadamy?

The movie jumps the shark (with just plan bad writting) when Kirk crash lands on the ice planet/moon.
He just happens to crash within a few miles of Spock?
Spock is placed within walking distance of a Federation outpost, and is waiting for… ? The one thing he could not know of ahead of time...that kirk is about to be sent there. Sadly he didnt enter earlier.....you know to try to send word to his planet of its doom.
Scotty just happens to be stationed at this outpost? Maybe he knew how to work a radio, or communicator.
Spock doesn’t go with Kirk because he doesn’t want to hurt the bonding experience for Kirk & Spock? Seriously? I think the timeline is already scewed.

BTW - Vulcan has no moon. (very fanboy...but a major point)


Shall we talk about why there has been no part 2, 3 or 4?.........Cause Spock is there to warn everyone about every bad thing that happens for the next 129 years.


Birth a new franchise? - Write something original.
Reboot a franchise? - Write something good. The reboot of Sherlock Holmes was a success - It was written well.

Two words.......ALTERNATE REALITY. But I will deal with your points:

1) In this reality Romulus is still there.....in fact the supernova might never occur at all.

2) Uhura and Kirk probably never meet when they did in the other reality, because Kirk enlists at a later date in this one.

3) See above for the irish kid. By the way, where was Tom Bombidil in Lord of the Rings?

4) Nero wanted Spock to live to witness the destruction of Vulcan. Spock wanted Kirk to live. Chances are both were placed within walking distance of the Federation outpost for that reason. Scotty was exciled to that outpost for beaming the Admirals dog into space. Did that even happen in the other reality? Spock doesn't go with Kirk because he feels a duty to the surviving Vulcans to stay alive.

5) I don't follow the Vulcan moon reference, but I assume you think what Spock and Kirk were on was a moon. If fact it was the planet Delta Vega which is in the same system as Vulcan.

Oops.....forgot to answer the question on the Kobayashi Maru. In the orginal story, Kirk takes the test two times and fails. Then he reprograms the test and wins the test that no one has ever won. He get a commendation for "original thinking". One can presume that the officers who awarded him that commendation knew he cheated and were rewarding his effort to do so. In the original story, Spock never takes the Kobayashi Maru test because he was not going for command, but science.

In the new reality, not only can we assume that Spock has taken the test.......he wrote the damn thing. Being the logical being that he is Spock brought Kirk up on charges for cheating.....which I assume the Accademy frowns on.

Two different realities......two different results.

[Kulaf]

Just as a reference loo.....check out the STNG eppisode Parallels. It was cited by Orci in his interview on canon.

http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/bob-orc ... l-science/

[Jarochai Alabaster]

Two words.......ALTERNATE REALITY. But I will deal with your points:

It's an alternate timeline, not an alternate reality. Star Trek treats the two as entirely separate phenomena (See ST:E In a Mirror, Darkly). The episode Parallels has no relevance whatsoever to Star Trek reboot.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

I should also point out that Star Trek Online has made significant efforts to explain some of the glaring questions left unanswered by Star Trek reboot (STO takes place in the early 25th century, in the original timeline). Like how nero's "mining ship" had such devastating weapons (It was outfitted with...wait for it...Borg technology) and why no effort whatsoever was made to evacuate Romulus (The supernova shockwave traveled through subspace, and destroyed Romulus [and Remus] within a few hours of the star's initial explosion). I got through the entire Romulan mission set, which is what covered all of the prime-timeline future-side Star Trek reboot crap, and they still never made any effort to explain wtf "red matter" is.

From what I've read of developer interviews, STO is pretty much "soft canon" like the novels and whatnot, so take that as you wish.

[Kulaf]

Two words.......ALTERNATE REALITY. But I will deal with your points:

It's an alternate timeline, not an alternate reality. Star Trek treats the two as entirely separate phenomena (See ST:E In a Mirror, Darkly). The episode Parallels has no relevance whatsoever to Star Trek reboot.

So you are insisting that Parallels has no relavance to the movie......when I just cited an interview with the guy who wrote it who says that it does?

Here is a quote directly from the movie:

Spock: We must gather with the rest of Starfleet... to balance the terms of the next engagement!
James T. Kirk: There won't BE a next engagement! By the time we've "gathered," it'll be too late! But you say he's from the future - knows what's gonna happen? - then the logical thing is to be unpredictable!
Spock: You're assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. The contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the U.S.S. Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
Lt. Nyota Uhura: An alternate reality.
Spock: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

Ok then, to be more precise:

It's an alternate timeline, not a parallel dimension. "Alternate reality" in Star Trek has typically meant the latter. Just another point on how convoluted the film is.

Also:

Anthony: So what happens with the destruction of the Kelvin is the creation of an alternative timeline, but what happens to the prime timeline after Nero leaves it? Does it continue or does it wink out of existence once he goes back and creates this new timeline.

Bob: It continues. According to the most successful, most tested scientific theory ever, quantum mechanics, it continues.

Anthony: So everyone in the prime timeline, like Picard and Riker, are still off doing there thing, it is just that Nero is gone.

Bob: Yes, and you will notice that whenever the movie comes out, that whatever DVDs you have purchased, will continue to exist.

Though you're right that he later conflates time travel and interdimensional travel entirely with his reference to ST IV. He also tries to apply quantum mechanics to time travel, and claims that everything in his film is scientifically valid. So he contradicts himself and believes that transporters, warp drive, inexplicable creation of singularities, time travel, and faster-than-light natural phenomena are scientifically accurate. He treats separate timelines and separate dimensions as the same thing, despite Star Trek treating them differently.

He doesn't know his source material. End of story.

Re: Parallels. Data ruled out temporal anomalies. He also concluded that the matter in Worf's body resonated at a different quantum signature than the matter native to that particular universe. If time travel and interdimensional travel are the same thing in Star Trek mythos, these distinctions wouldn't have been made. Again, please see In a Mirror, Darkly. The entire episode revolves around a ship that travels through time and into an alternate reality.

In every "alternate timeline" episode, a specific event is necessary within the "original" timeline to make an alteration (Enterprise C disappears from a critical moment in history, war with the Klingons; Borg go back in time, earth is assimilated; McCoy goes back in time, the Nazis win). In every "alternate dimension" episode, there's discussion of crossing the barriers between separate universes, but never any relationship of cause and effect between the dimensions. I think DS9 did the most with this and its repeated escapades into the Mirror Universe, but interdimensional episodes are universally rarer than time travel episodes. Voyager didn't even have any, though they did have quite a few alternate timelines (Year of Hell, Timeless, Endgame, etc.).

[Harlowe]

Kulaf that hardly matters, respected critics weren't all thrilled with it and I agree with Ebert....

"Keith Phipps of The A.V. Club gave the film a 'B+' grade, and asserted that it was "a reconsideration of what constitutes Star Trek, one that deemphasizes heady concepts and plainly stated humanist virtues in favor of breathless action punctuated by bursts of emotion. It might not even be immediately recognizable to veteran fans." In concurrence, Roger Ebert of the Chicago Sun-Times stated that "the Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." Ebert ultimately gave it a 2.5 out of 4 stars. Similarly, Marc Bain of Newsweek opined: "The latest film version of Star Trek [...] is more brawn than brain, and it largely jettisons complicated ethical conundrums in favor of action sequences and special effects. Slate journalist Juliet Lapidos argued that the new film, with its "standard Hollywood torture scene", failed to live up to the intellectual standard set by the 1992 Next Generation episode "Chain of Command", whose treatment of the issue she found both more sophisticated and pertinent to the ongoing debate over the United States' use of enhanced interrogation techniques.

[Garrdor]

Abrams-Trek sucked. But, so did most of the original-series movies. Oh, and like all of the TNG movies.

Trek is best formatted as a show.

I understand that it's a 'reboot' and a new mainstream attempt on a cult franchise. That is going to make people angry no matter what. I honestly don't give much of a fuck about it's legitimacy within my favorite franchise. It's a sterile corporate summer-blockbuster and really doesn't threaten the original shows. Also, it's based on TOS. TOS is a funky haymaker-throwing-karate-chopping-furry-alien-growling piece of pulp compared to the rest of the series. The ideas of course are far ahead of their time for the intended audience. I'll give it that. (someone had to step in and let the lil' spoiled westerners know that socialism/communism isn't always a bad thing)

I feel that, even as serious as some of the TOS crew movies were - Next Gen was the real reinventing of the franchise. I don't worship Star Trek because of evil midgets and tribbles; It was the high-minded critical thinking direction of Next Gen that reeled me in. The amount of depth the NextGen/DS9/Voyager provided it's fans/viewers, is the very reason so many recoiled over Abrams-Trek. A section of the fanbase reacted as if someone went out of their way to insult their intelligence. I can imagine they feel like the nerdy scifi shut-in that now has to share a bedroom with their normal/consumerist little brother.

When it comes to universes and canon for the series... I won't even touch that shit. Trek has used time-travel in the same gimmicky way serialized shows use the *wake up* "Oh good, it was only a dream!"

Let's hope that the end of the next film, it'll have a sweaty Wesley Crusher being jarred awake. *Wipes forehead in relief*

[Kulaf]

Ok Jaro.....let's just put an end to the Parallels debate:



Straight from Data......Alternate Quantum Realities.

[Kulaf]

So.....that settled and on a lighter note. Time travel......OR........alternate reality.



Why not both. Time travel and alternate reality.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

Ok Jaro.....let's just put an end to the Parallels debate:



Straight from Data......Alternate Quantum Realities.

Um...that's exactly what I've been saying. In fact I almost posted that video myself. This is not the same as temporal paradoxes or alternate timelines that result from tampering with history. Abrams conflates the two phenomena - Star Trek does not. I'm seriously starting to think you simply don't want to understand what I'm saying.

Please respond re: Data's specific statement in the episode that Worf is from a parallel reality as opposed to an alternate timeline of their own reality. Please respond re: In a Mirror, Darkly, which outright states that the two phenomena are entirely separate from one another.

[Massterloo]

Can we get a diff reality where the next star trek show, movie...whatever is well written.

Like Finding Vejour...no, wait thats Star Trek 1, and can be warned about...Klingon home world dieing...Hey, lets check up on Khan once in a while to make sure his new home don't crumble....Look out for the Borg....That Doomsday machine can be overloaded....Did you know Jack the Ripper was an alien parisite?...Remember how to make gun powder...never use a holodeck.....Just close the wormhole, and avoid the Dominion.


Wait!!! Let's reboot the reboot. We will go back in time, and write a good script. Or maybe...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbJ-y6BWfUc

[Kulaf]

Ok Jaro.....let's just put an end to the Parallels debate:



Straight from Data......Alternate Quantum Realities.

Um...that's exactly what I've been saying. In fact I almost posted that video myself. This is not the same as temporal paradoxes or alternate timelines that result from tampering with history. Abrams conflates the two phenomena - Star Trek does not. I'm seriously starting to think you simply don't want to understand what I'm saying.

Please respond re: Data's specific statement in the episode that Worf is from a parallel reality as opposed to an alternate timeline of their own reality. Please respond re: In a Mirror, Darkly, which outright states that the two phenomena are entirely separate from one another.

Sure I will respond. If one takes as a given that alternate realties exist.....and one takes as a given that time travel is possible, then why cannot one time travel into in an alternate reality? The only difference between that and Parallels is the time travel. "In a Mirror, Darkly" is a mirror universe where everyone is different from "normal" Star Trek reality. They are the "evil" counterparts.......not the same people making different choices. It is the prequel to "Mirror, Mirror" from the original series. The two concepts have nothing to do with one another.

You seem to be thinking that the reality of the reboot was spawned off the "normal" reality of Star Trek by the time travel event of the Narada. I do not think that.......and neither do the writers of the movie. That alternate reality already existed and the Narada and Spocks ship time traveled to it. I doubt any decesion tree spawned by the time travel event would have led to Scotty deciding to beam an admirals dog into space getting him exiled on Delta Vega. But if you care to make some causal arguement, feel free to do so.