FBI flew Saudis out post 9/11

[Kulaf]

http://www.factcheck.org/article294.html

[Kulaf]

http://www.newsaic.com/f911chap3-3.html

[Embar Angylwrath]

Beek pwned again, film at 11.

[Aabe]

I'm so glad, tinfoil makes me break out in a rash.

[Kulaf]

http://saudiembassy.net/2004News/Statem ... cIndex=396

"PRINCE BANDAR: And the FBI, according to Richard Clarke in his testimony, called him, and he said, "I have no problem if the FBI has no problem." So we gathered them all in here, and then once they were here they left.
Now the other airplanes were for Saudi officials who were here on vacation. And after this disaster took place they all had to go back home to official positions. But it is not true that they were flying when Americans were not flying, Tim. Americans were flying, and the restrictions were lifted. But there were -- I mean, the stoppage was lifted, but there were restrictions. So -- but think about it logically: Do you think -- where are we, in a banana republic? I would pick 140 Saudis, put them in aircraft and smuggle them out and nobody will know? Look, people have to take yes for an answer and read what the 9/11 Commission said on this."

[Akhbarali]

Looks like the FBI did an excellent job protecting innocent people without harming the investigation into the events. The administration did nothing more that what I hope other governments would do for our citizens in similar circumstances. Excellent links Kulaf, I had not seen three of them and they were quite interesting.

Akhbar

[Relbeek Einre]

Except, Kulaf, they didn't depart the country during those flights, they shuttled around the country. They departed later.

Factcheck is also wrong on more than one factual point:

Notice that Moore drops in the words "after September 13" without explaining the significance of that date -- the day airspace reopened to commercial traffic at 11am.

This is a misleading statement. I was driving Sept. 13th to Seattle because airlines had been shut down and my brother was married on the 14th. Had commercial flights reopened before the 14th, my father would have been in attendance. In fact, it wasn't until the 14th that "normal" service was restored, though flights were "allowed" to continue on the 13th.

Also, read: 24 members of bin Laden's family were allowed to depart the US. They claim 22 were questioned. Why not the other two?

FURTHER, the NYT and a FOIA request has shown the links you cite are in error. Many Saudis were allowed to leave the country without any questioning whatsoever. Further, the Snopes article shows flights WERE in the air under special dispensation, despite the factcheck article.

People like Embar like to sit and catcall without reading. But if he'd read, and digest, there are many contradictions in the links you site, Kulaf, and more still when compared to the NYT article.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Also, read: 24 members of bin Laden's family were allowed to depart the US. They claim 22 were questioned. Why not the other two?

Perhaps because children under the age of two aren't real good at answering questions from the FBI.

[Relbeek Einre]

A possibility. Do you have evidence that was why?

[Ddrak]

Ouch Embar, ouch.


Really, I don't see the big deal here. OBL was very high on the most wanted list even before 9/11. If you think the FBI didn't already know the family members in the country had nothing to do with OBL's activities then there's some serious problems. However, taking the more likely stance that the FBI already had extensive files on every BL family member in the country and knew already that they had no ties with Al Qaeda then there's really nothing to say other than they did the right thing by getting them out of the way of any revenge stupidity.

Dd

[Kulaf]

From the 9/11 Commission report:

"9/11 Commission (page 557): Having an opportunity to check the Saudis was useful to the FBI. This was because the U.S. government did not, and does not, routinely run checks on foreigners who are leaving the United States. This procedure was convenient to the FBI, as the Saudis who wished to leave in this way would gather and present themselves for record checks and interviews, an opportunity that would not be available if they simply left on regularly scheduled commercial flights."

So we got more information from the Saudi's leaving on this flight than if they had just waited and boarded a normal plane. So what is the problem again?

[Relbeek Einre]

If you think the FBI didn't already know the family members in the country had nothing to do with OBL's activities then there's some serious problems.

I don't think the FBI ever could "KNOW" that, but you make a good point that they probably had reasonable confidence of such.

[Ddrak]

Well, yeah. In any case that involved intelligence, "know" should be read as "had a reasonable amount of information to confirm".

Dd

[Kulaf]

Except, Kulaf, they didn't depart the country during those flights, they shuttled around the country. They departed later.

Factcheck is also wrong on more than one factual point:

Notice that Moore drops in the words "after September 13" without explaining the significance of that date -- the day airspace reopened to commercial traffic at 11am.

This is a misleading statement. I was driving Sept. 13th to Seattle because airlines had been shut down and my brother was married on the 14th. Had commercial flights reopened before the 14th, my father would have been in attendance. In fact, it wasn't until the 14th that "normal" service was restored, though flights were "allowed" to continue on the 13th..

From p329 of the 9/11 Comission Report:

Flights of Saudi Nationals Leaving the United States
Three questions have arisen with respect to the departure of Saudi nationals from the United States in the immediate aftermath of 9/11: (1) Did any flights of Saudi nationals take place before national airspace reopened on September 13,2001? (2) Was there any political intervention
to facilitate the departure of Saudi nationals? (3) Did the FBI screen Saudi nationals thoroughly before their departure?
First, we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals, domestic or international, took place before the reopening of national airspace on the morning of September 13, 2001.24 To the contrary, every flight we have identified occurred after national airspace reopened.25 Second, we found no evidence of political intervention.We found no evidence that anyone at theWhite House above the level of Richard Clarke participated in a decision on the departure of Saudi nationals. The issue came up in one of the many video teleconferences of the interagency group Clarke chaired,and Clarke said he approved of how the FBI was dealing with the matter when it came up for interagency discussion at his level.Clarke told us,“I asked the FBI,Dale Watson ... to handle that, to check to see if that was all right with them, to see if they wanted access to any of these people,and to get back to me.And if they had no objections,it would be fine with me.”Clarke added,“I have no recollection of clearing it with anybody at the White House.”26 Although White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card remembered someone telling him about the Saudi request shortly after 9/11,he said he had not talked to the Saudis and did not ask anyone to do anything about it.The President andVice President told us they were not aware of the issue at all until it surfaced much later in the media.None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee.27 Third,we believe that the FBI conducted a satisfactory screening of Saudi nationals who left the United States on charter flights.28 The Saudi government was advised of and agreed to the FBI’s requirements that passengers be identified and checked against various databases before the flights departed.29The Federal Aviation Administration representative
working in the FBI operations center made sure that the FBI was aware of the flights of Saudi nationals and was able to screen the passengers before they were allowed to depart.30 The FBI interviewed all persons of interest on these flights prior to their departures.They concluded that none of the passengers was connected
to the 9/11 attacks and have since found no evidence to change that conclusion. Our own independent review of the Saudi nationals involved confirms that no one with known links to terrorism departed on these flights.31

[Ddrak]

Kula,

Did you read Relbeek's post? I just have to ask because you didn't contradict anything he said.

Dd

[Kulaf]

Nothing in what he quoted from FactCheck is misleading. The fact is that flgiths were allowed after 11am on the 13th. No clue as to why he could not get a flight, but planes were allowed to fly as of that date and time.

[Torakus]

Kulaf,

Only the parts of the 9/11 commission report that make the Bush Administration are factually accurate. That particular part of the report, cannot be factually accurate, because Michael Mooron says it happened otherwise. MM as the all knowing, all seeing, potentate of WhackaBush International should know. His right and left hands Relbeek and Klast will tell you so.

Tora

[Ddrak]

No clue as to why he could not get a flight, but planes were allowed to fly as of that date and time.

Actually, the reason is pretty simple. It takes about a day for a commerical airline to get all its planes in the places they need to be to run the schedule.

Dd

[Embar Angylwrath]

I have never, ever posted a troll on this board
- walrus -

I have never had sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky.

- Clinton -

Clinton is more believable.

[Kulaf]

My understanding is most of the planes that needed to be "re-hubed" flew mostly emply as few people were inclined to fly.

Bottom line is national airspace was open.....and carriers could fly if they chose to.