red sox or yankees???

Burz · Post by **Burz** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:38 pm

<-- DH hater...but I thought Edgar was a good hitter and person.

Post by **Ddrak** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:14 am

DH is lame.

Barrin · Post by **Barrin** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:53 am

Burz · Post by **Burz** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:23 am

Barrin wrote:

Grats on Nick Lachey.

ZanypherCocoapuffs · Post by **ZanypherCocoapuffs** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:19 pm

Actually I was more interested in the manga in Barrin's sig. H2 or Touch? I can never tell the difference.

Barrin · Post by **Barrin** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:33 pm

H2, if it was Touch the pitcher would have a M on his hat duh!

Akhbarali · Post by **Akhbarali** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:06 pm

ZanypherCocoapuffs wrote:Will he be Cooperstown Bound?

No

Akhbar

Go Tribe!

Fobbon Lazyfoot · Post by **Fobbon Lazyfoot** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:57 pm

I hate sports.

Flaten · Post by **Flaten** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:08 am

Doubt Edgar will ever see the HoF. No full-time DH's are in atm and I don't see 75% of the writers ever voting a decent hitter who couldn't play the field to the hall. From a Boston standpoint, Dwight Evans and Jim Rice deserve a bid so much more but they'll never see the hall either.

Akhbarali · Post by **Akhbarali** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:08 am

I consider Harold Baines to be as worthy as Edgar and I seriously doubt he is going in either. Rice is actually more deserving in my eyes as well (and I am no BoSox fan) and he still might slip in at some point in the future. Edgar Martinez was a fine player but he is no HoF'er.

Akhbar

ZanypherCocoapuffs · Post by **ZanypherCocoapuffs** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:40 pm

Yes, but I think that things have to change. The DH, whether these baseball HOF voters like it or not, is a part of baseball and will never leave. In fact, if I had my way, it'd be put into both leagues. There is NO fundamental reason to have the pitcher hit for himself, especially in the modern baseball game where positions are specialized towards one particular strength. Pitchers aren't taught to hit, and so 98.9 percent of the time, the pitcher is dead weight in a lineup. Sure, they sacrifice bunt or occassionally get a hit, but usually they're an easy out which inflates strikeouts and lowers ERAs for NL pitchers.

Be that as it may, Edgar is still the best DH to ever play. Jim Rice played 3/4ths his career in the outfield, so he doesn't even quality as a DH. Evans also mostly played in the outfield. Edgar played 592 games out of his lifetime 2055 in the field. He was a pure DH, and the best at his position. Harold Baines also played a majority of his games at the DH position, but Edgar's numbers as a DH are better then Baines', therefore Edgar is the best DH that has ever played. You can also argue that Paul Moliter played a lot of DH, but he was a HOFer because of pure numbers alone. Whether or not Rice or Evans are HOFers based on their stats is another story, but they're certainly not DH's.

Anyway, I realize this is a very controversial subject, and up for a lot of debate, but since it's really up to the HOF Voters, our arguing is moot.

Burz · Post by **Burz** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:45 pm

Field of Dreams was on today on ESPN Classics....one of maybe 3 movies that I can stand Kevin Costner in.

Massterrloo · Post by **Massterrloo** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:56 am

A DH hitter will be in the Hall of fame one day. But he will have to have the numbers to do it.

500 home runs, and or 3000 hits.

And lets talk about shoeless Joe Jackson......He was found "NOT" guilty of being part of the fix in 1919.......His family should sue, and MLB should apolagize to them.

Mastrloo
70 monk 60 Mage
Alarius - Spiritslammers

ZanypherCocoapuffs · Post by **ZanypherCocoapuffs** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:25 am

Massterrloo wrote:And lets talk about shoeless Joe Jackson......He was found "NOT" guilty of being part of the fix in 1919.......His family should sue, and MLB should apolagize to them.

No arguement here. A great like Joe Jackson deserves his due. I think Pete Rose deserves the same accolades for his accomplishments while playing the game. Whatever happens after that, though, is up to the individual to decide.

ZanypherCocoapuffs · Post by **ZanypherCocoapuffs** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:26 am

Y'know what I keep loving though? Everybody keeps mentioning Mariano Rivera and "Hall of Fame" career in the same sentence.

I can think of quite a few other closers who deserve that title before Mariano Rivera. Just because he's a fuckin' Yankee...

Burz · Post by **Burz** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:10 pm

Should be a rule that no Stienbrenner Yankee ever makes it into the Hall.

Barrin · Post by **Barrin** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:11 pm

Quite a few? Are you on dope? Just because he started this year a little shakey doesn't mean he is not EASILY the most dominate closer of the last 10 years. The only other person who is worthy of being mentioned in the same sentance as him is Smoltz and he made his name as a starter.

Who is quite a few? I went fishing for stats just to see if you were blowing smoke and most of the high end closers aren't even close to him in ERA, WHIP or BAA. They might have more saves, but that is because they have been in the league longer. Assuming he doesn't completely melt down in the last few years of his career, he's a shoe-in.

Flaten · Post by **Flaten** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:43 pm

I absolutely hate hate hate the Yankees but Riveria is the most dominant closer ever. There isn't even a debate on this subject. He's the most valuable Yankee over the past 10 years and the biggest reason the Yankee's have had so much success. The only closers over the past 10 years to even be mentioned with Riveria are Hoffman and probably Gagne.

I've always liked Edgar Martinez as a hitter. He never really got the respect he deserved because he played for such a small market team. I just don't see a DH getting in the HoF unless he puts up some monster numbers in his career. Calling someone the greatest DH of all time is kind of misleading. I mean if Pujols puts up the exact same numbers as Martinez playing first base would he get in? As I stated before you need 75% of the writers votes to get in. Getting in is hard enough but having alot of the voters biased against the position you play makes it virtually impossible. Hey McGwire will never see the HoF either, maybe the two of them can hang out together

ZanypherCocoapuffs · Post by **ZanypherCocoapuffs** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:01 pm

Barrin wrote:Quite a few? Are you on dope? Just because he started this year a little shakey doesn't mean he is not EASILY the most dominate closer of the last 10 years. The only other person who is worthy of being mentioned in the same sentance as him is Smoltz and he made his name as a starter.

Who is quite a few? I went fishing for stats just to see if you were blowing smoke and most of the high end closers aren't even close to him in ERA, WHIP or BAA. They might have more saves, but that is because they have been in the league longer. Assuming he doesn't completely melt down in the last few years of his career, he's a shoe-in.

I think you missed my point. How many closers are in the HOF? More importantly, why does the closer with the most saves ever not in the HOF?