Reality

[Select]

Ok, Tax, Kulaf, and Jaro, I'll try to understand your different beliefs. Explain to me why for you guys, you don't believe this. Explain to me why you feel it doesn't hurt the group and perpetuate the anti-culture. Also please explain to me why you each would find these things funny, and if not funny, acceptable.

[Kulaf]

Sorry.....but in the words of Ricky Ricardo.......You got some splaining to do! (Z0MG! I am ze racist!)

I'd love to hear your rationalization to explain your own stance. After all, you made the commnet.

[Taxious]

Making fun of something doesn't equate to hating it.

[Harlowe]

The thing you're missing here is we don't believe you have. You're coming off as a hypocrite and a liar. I don't know why you haven't been able to understand this - Everyone here has been loud and clear. It's not about generalizations because we won't react this way to everyone who says this; it's about you specifically
-snip-
I believe Harlowe kept it short and sweet because she has so little respect for you, the hypocrite, that she doesn't find it worth her time to engage much with something so pitiful.

The only time we are true to ourselves and to the world is when we know it is all going to end and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

I can't believe I'm breaking my own rule and feeding the troll, but this is arrant nonsense.

I think you both nailed it. It's either a self-indulgent cry for attention or blatant troll. Either way, it's nonsense and he hasn't changed. In a single post he swings wildly from phony introspection to childish attacks, so it's hard to take him seriously enough to engage him.

Jarochai Alabaster wrote:
Honestly I don't want to be gay, but I'm forced to because I refuse to date anyone who isn't at least my intellectual equal.

Tax, He's saying he's more intelligent than all women.

[Partha]

You misunderstand, Harlowe.

I can absolutely believe that he believes it.

It's just bullshit.

[Harlowe]

I don't, I think he's just jerking chains for attention - but if he does believe that? Then...wow.

[Select]

I did explain. I said the jokes contribute to perpetuating the oppressive culture and negative mindset.

Making fun of something doesn't equate to hating it.

Didn't quite say that. You and the others here who objected are taking racism as an entirely active, chosen hatred. It can be done through ignorance.

You can claim you're not racist, but you're not helping an oppressed people's situation by contributing to the oppressive environment. So you can be racist through naivete and ignorance. It's possible to have racist thoughts or behaviors and not even realize how you're negatively affecting the minority population. That's what the concept of privilege is.

I do also think there has to be a small chosen and known level of disdain for the group to make the jokes in the first place. Also, if it's negatively affecting them and you're not educating yourself on why and instead continuing the behavior that damages them socially and personally, you're essentially saying you don't care. Not caring, to me, amounts to racism and at that point is willful ignorance.

I'm asking why you guys don't take issue with the "jokes" and why that particular subject matter is funny to you. If you don't find them particularly funny, then replace "funny" with "acceptable" and answer that way.

[Select]

Harlowe and Partha - Whether or not you believe he believes it, I think you can both agree he's being stupid.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

I can make fun of anyone for any reason. I apply the...hate or disdain or indifference - whatever you want to call it - equally to all people for virtually all reasons.

Would you be as indignant if it were a member of a minority group joking about a majority group? If so, I'll at least commend you on your consistence. If not, I'll call you out as a hypocrite and the racist/bigot you're accusing us of being.

Here's the thing. Society as a whole has made the arbitrary decision that it's ok for minority groups to poke fun at majority groups, but not the other way around. Minority comedians do it. Minority-centered sitcoms and films do it. Of course, the moment it goes the other way around some special interest group or another makes a big huff about it.

Overall? Racist jokes are funny. Humor is our response to the absurd, and there's not much I find more absurd about human nature than the ability to arbitrarily hate someone over something so trivial as the tone of their skin (An evolutionary defense-mechanism of all things), what corner of the world they were born in, whether they have a penis or vagina, or who they like to fuck.

I may joke, but I've never behaved discriminatorily towards someone of another race, gender, ethnicity, sexuality, or pretty much any other category. I don't believe a joke can "keep the black man down." Of course, such things are inapropriate in the workplace, but that's a separate issue entirely.

Bottom line, grow a thicker skin. You'll need it.

[Kulaf]

I did explain. I said the jokes contribute to perpetuating the oppressive culture and negative mindset.

Making fun of something doesn't equate to hating it.

Didn't quite say that. You and the others here who objected are taking racism as an entirely active, chosen hatred. It can be done through ignorance.

You can claim you're not racist, but you're not helping an oppressed people's situation by contributing to the oppressive environment. So you can be racist through naivete and ignorance. It's possible to have racist thoughts or behaviors and not even realize how you're negatively affecting the minority population. That's what the concept of privilege is.

I do also think there has to be a small chosen and known level of disdain for the group to make the jokes in the first place. Also, if it's negatively affecting them and you're not educating yourself on why and instead continuing the behavior that damages them socially and personally, you're essentially saying you don't care. Not caring, to me, amounts to racism and at that point is willful ignorance.

I'm asking why you guys don't take issue with the "jokes" and why that particular subject matter is funny to you. If you don't find them particularly funny, then replace "funny" with "acceptable" and answer that way.

You made a wide sweeping generalization that jokes about a minority/class/whatever constitute some deep seeded belief that said joke equals reality. This is simple not true. It CAN be true depending on the individual......but is not true as a given.

If a KKK member makes a nigger joke that is one thing.......if Chris Rock makes a nigger joke that is another.

[Garrdor]

Honestly, who here reacted and filled in the blank with an " i " instead of an " a " ?

To be honest, I filled it in with an " i " without thinking about it.

[Taxious]

Select, your view of the world sounds really... serious. I couldn't imaging going through life not being able to joke about anything/everything. You talk as if your presence and actions here on earth will actually make a difference. Despite what disney tells you, you are not special - you are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.

I agree with Jaro:

Bottom line, grow a thicker skin. You'll need it.

[Taxious]

Honestly, who here reacted and filled in the blank with an " i " instead of an " a " ?

To be honest, I filled it in with an " i " without thinking about it.

Hahaha, I saw that episode again a couple nights ago - too funny! I went with the "i" at first too, I'll admit it.

[Harlowe]

I don't think the world or anyone in it would benefit by being populated solely with thick-skinned, cynical and jaded humans. I personally think Select is going to live a more fulfilling and happier life feeling she can make a difference and trying to, than someone thinking "why bother" because nothing matters so they do nothing but go through the motions of life dwelling on everything that sucks.

It might not make her more special than anyone else, but everything we do does in fact make a difference.

[Garrdor]

It's in human nature to be racist, by the way. It all comes down to the nature vs. nurture example. By nature, you will fear and not understand the person who looks different from you. By being raised alongside of people of different color and origin/lifestyle, you will be equiped with that understanding to be able to bridge the gap. Sometimes the 'nurture' route isn't always successful. Sometimes people will act and feel a certian way regardless of life experiences. This can only be attributed to our own destructive and fearful nature. However, It's my belief that people are becoming better - period. With every generation that is produced, they are equipped with traits that more suitably meet the needs of an advanced species. I find that the most ignorant, closed minded and hateful/fearful people I run into are those who are a deal older than myself. It may not be solid evidence, it's just my own observation.

I feel like we've come a long ways in a very short amount of time. Racism will be around for a long time, but I don't think it'll be as socially endoctrinated as these baby-boomer-and-under generations die off.

Hey, I was brought up in the diverse city of Sacramento. I had ONE white friend at one of the schools I went to at one point. My dad's roommate for a couple years while I was growing up was a dude who happened to be black. I was exposed to a diverse enviroment, thus I came out into the world more equipped to raise above what my biology tells me to think/feel. My (white) co-worker's 4 year-old daughter was at the park once and was exposed to her first black person. My co-worker told me her reaction was fearful and confused. She told him "Daddy, there's a brown man over there!" and was actually afraid of him.

But then again, babies/young kids cry when they see me and my scary hair. It's nature.

[Harlowe]

That's funny my niece was super impressed with the first really dark-skinned black man she saw as a toddler (I think she was 3 1/2) "ooh look at the purple man!".

This can only be attributed to our own destructive and fearful nature. However, It's my belief that people are becoming better - period. With every generation that is produced, they are equipped with traits that more suitably meet the needs of an advanced species. I find that the most ignorant, closed minded and hateful/fearful people I run into are those who are a deal older than myself. It may not be solid evidence, it's just my own observation.

I feel like we've come a long ways in a very short amount of time. Racism will be around for a long time, but I don't think it'll be as socially endoctrinated as these baby-boomer-and-under generations die off.

Totally agree. Actually I liked your whole post.

[Embar Angylwrath]

I said the jokes contribute to perpetuating the oppressive culture and negative mindset.

This is you listening to those hairy women on campus too much. Fer crissakes Select, unwind a bit, decompress, and entertain the possibility that people who tell jokes aren't part of some master conspiracy to subjugate some portion of the population.

My advice to you... get laid, get a life, and get some perspective. All in a 48 hour timeframe. You'll thank me later.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

Just because someone isn't necessarily a bigot doesn't mean that most of that type of humor is any less crass.

[Select]

Jaro: Most of your post is discussing the personally damaged route, which is what comes to mind when we think someone is offended. I'm focusing mostly on social damage. I mean, yeah, there's overlap, but this is way more than "He said a mean word I didn't like."

I dislike insults about any group, minority or majority. There's enough types of humor in the world that I've never found it hard to avoid in my personal life. But despite disliking all of it, I recognize that there is a significant power difference between a minority insulting the majority and the majority insulting the minority. Just like a minority making fun of themselves doesn't have the same social impact as the majority or other minorities jumping in. So while I dislike all of it, I am more vocal when it's against the minority because I recognize the much greater social damage. So yea, Chris Rock insulting blacks has a way different impact and implications than white lady or Latino dude doing it.

I may joke, but I've never behaved discriminatorily towards someone of another race, gender, ethnicity, sexuality, or pretty much any other category

As far as you know, but it's likely that you have and weren't able to recognize it at the time. Hence the concept of privilege.
And on the subject of privilege, sometimes I think it goes too far into unreasonable territory, but overall I think it's a valid concept.

I don't believe a joke can "keep the black man down."

Alone? No, it can't. But it's never alone. It's one tiny piece of the larger issue that perpetuates oppression. There isn't one almighty pillar to knock down. But together, every little piece sure does count because it's not over yet.

to arbitrarily hate someone over something so trivial as the tone of their skin (An evolutionary defense-mechanism of all things)

Can you show me this from a source?

What I think I'm getting from you, Jaro, and maybe the others, is that you're objecting to this idea you have that these jokes are an agenda and that they are the sole/major cause of oppression, etc. What I'm also getting from you is that you don't actually exactly know how these jokes contribute to oppression. It's fine if you object with the concept, but what I'm getting is you haven't read up on this subject fully since you aren't making an argument against specifically why it contributes; I'm just seeing an argument against the general idea you seem to have about it. I do think you need to do a lot of reading on the subject to address it properly. And if then you still object, that's fine - at least you actually know what it is and can make a specific counter argument.

And the workplace really isn't that different a subject. Tell me why you think it's inappropriate in the workplace?

To Tax and Harlowe (who had it right), I don't know if I'll make a difference. This isn't about the cookie; I truly feel things are wrong and so I object. Tax, I'm sure you have your own things you believe to the core are wrong. If you can't understand living my life, that's fine. It works for me and I'm pretty content with how things are going overall.

[Select]

This can only be attributed to our own destructive and fearful nature. However, It's my belief that people are becoming better - period. With every generation that is produced, they are equipped with traits that more suitably meet the needs of an advanced species. I find that the most ignorant, closed minded and hateful/fearful people I run into are those who are a deal older than myself. It may not be solid evidence, it's just my own observation.

I feel like we've come a long ways in a very short amount of time. Racism will be around for a long time, but I don't think it'll be as socially endoctrinated as these baby-boomer-and-under generations die off.

Well said and uplifting. It makes me sad when people my age feel we are worse than we've ever been as a species.