Now tell us all exactly what we are reading......or didn't you bother to back source it?
What? You can't read now?
Her grandson called 911 seeking medical assistance, 10 police officers responded and one of them decided she had taken an "agressive posture" and ordered for one of the officers to taser her.
It's directly quoted from the lawsuit they filed. It's not a news report, it's certainly not unbiased, and it only contains one side of the story.
You're right, that didn't include any information from the police report at all... Except that it did.
He stated in his report that the 86 year-old plaintiff 'took a more aggressive posture in her bed,' and that he was fearful for his safety and the safety of others.
Now I'm sure that her tone was more hostile than just simply asking them to "get out of her apartment". It was more than likely along the lines of "get the hell out of my apartment". The grandson would've been wise to ask the officers into the hallway so that he could explain the situation, but this happened and the officers crossed the line. There was absolutely no reason to taser a bedridden old lady and then have her sent to a psych-ward for almost a week.
Kulaf wrote:Going to go out on a limb here and guess that none of you ever played any kind of organized team sport like football. Guy takes a cheap shot at one of your team......you retaliate. Pure and simple. Let's for the sake of argement say that that guy in the van just tried to run down your wife....mother......brother. What would you do when you caught up to him?
Ohh and your perfect emotionless never breaks the rules cop is I am sure being deveoloped by Cyberdyne Systems even as we speak.
The "team" cops are supposed to be playing for is the law. Not themselves. And you embody exactly what is wrong with modern policing... the thought that they are separate from the rest of us. Your stance is essentially "They get to break the law to uphold the law". And in your twisted version of this, the "team" analogy would be something like... "Our side will break the rules in order to gain an advantage." Sorry Kulaf, that shit just doesn't fly. And its telling that from conservative to liberal, across this board, everyone thinks your stance is misguided, at best.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.
This happened months ago. Dig a little deeper and you'll find the other side to this story. The cops claimed she showed a knife, and threatened to kill herself. So they tased her.
I don't know which version is true, but you can't take a plaintiff's lawyer's version as gospel. I DO find it troubling though that so many cops showed up at that incident, that doesn't make sense to me. And it's also the police force that tased a man going into diabetic seizure.
But fom a purely objective standpoint... if there were the police commander on the scene, and granny threatened to kill herself, and then brandished a knife.. as a cop I think I would have tased her too. You don't want granny killing herslef on your watch, and you don't want granny slicing up your officers. And you CERTAINLY don't want to hit her with pepper spray if she's on an oxy bottle.
If she had a knofe and threatened to kill herself or harm others... taser. If there was no knife... then those cops need to be fired and prosecuted.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.
Kulaf wrote:Going to go out on a limb here and guess that none of you ever played any kind of organized team sport like football. Guy takes a cheap shot at one of your team......you retaliate. Pure and simple. Let's for the sake of argement say that that guy in the van just tried to run down your wife....mother......brother. What would you do when you caught up to him?
Ohh and your perfect emotionless never breaks the rules cop is I am sure being deveoloped by Cyberdyne Systems even as we speak.
The "team" cops are supposed to be playing for is the law. Not themselves. And you embody exactly what is wrong with modern policing... the thought that they are separate from the rest of us. Your stance is essentially "They get to break the law to uphold the law". And in your twisted version of this, the "team" analogy would be something like... "Our side will break the rules in order to gain an advantage." Sorry Kulaf, that shit just doesn't fly. And its telling that from conservative to liberal, across this board, everyone thinks your stance is misguided, at best.
I embody what is wrong with modern policing? Aren't you the guy who was teaching his parents how to use a gun to shoot people if their store ever got robbed? You sounded pretty vigilante back then now you trying to come off like the police hitting someone a few times is a huge deal? Gimmie a break.
But fom a purely objective standpoint... if there were the police commander on the scene, and granny threatened to kill herself, and then brandished a knife.. as a cop I think I would have tased her too. You don't want granny killing herslef on your watch, and you don't want granny slicing up your officers. And you CERTAINLY don't want to hit her with pepper spray if she's on an oxy bottle.
If she had a knofe and threatened to kill herself or harm others... taser. If there was no knife... then those cops need to be fired and prosecuted.
Are you saying 10 men couldn't simply have rushed a bedridden woman and stopped her from hurting herself?
I think using a taser on her was a tad overboard, if thats the case. They would've been completely justified in restraining her from hurting herself, I don't quite classify tasing someone as a restraint.
Kulaf wrote:I embody what is wrong with modern policing? Aren't you the guy who was teaching his parents how to use a gun to shoot people if their store ever got robbed? You sounded pretty vigilante back then now you trying to come off like the police hitting someone a few times is a huge deal? Gimmie a break.
Theres a stark difference between self-defense and police brutality/assault.
But fom a purely objective standpoint... if there were the police commander on the scene, and granny threatened to kill herself, and then brandished a knife.. as a cop I think I would have tased her too. You don't want granny killing herslef on your watch, and you don't want granny slicing up your officers. And you CERTAINLY don't want to hit her with pepper spray if she's on an oxy bottle.
If she had a knofe and threatened to kill herself or harm others... taser. If there was no knife... then those cops need to be fired and prosecuted.
Are you saying 10 men couldn't simply have rushed a bedridden woman and stopped her from hurting herself?
I think using a taser on her was a tad overboard, if thats the case. They would've been completely justified in restraining her from hurting herself, I don't quite classify tasing someone as a restraint.
Kulaf wrote:Going to go out on a limb here and guess that none of you ever played any kind of organized team sport like football. Guy takes a cheap shot at one of your team......you retaliate. Pure and simple. Let's for the sake of argement say that that guy in the van just tried to run down your wife....mother......brother. What would you do when you caught up to him?
Ohh and your perfect emotionless never breaks the rules cop is I am sure being deveoloped by Cyberdyne Systems even as we speak.
Like I said, I have two brothers that are cops. Both hold the position that their job is to serve the public, not serve the police force. The instant you treat policing like an us-vs-them team sport, you've lost the whole point of the job.
If someone tries to run you down, you add it to the list of charges and note their behavior in your own response to ensure your safety. Once the fugitive is in your control, it is as much your duty to protect them from harm as it is to bring them in, so you are absolutely breaking the law by taking any sort of vengeance and stepping from the "cop" side of the law to the "criminal" side.
You're right.....and in a perfect sterile emotionless world that is how things would work. However we are all human and we have emotions, and anger coupled with adrenaline is a powerful thing to control. I am not saying any cop who crosses the line shouldn't be subject to the law......what I AM saying is that I understand where it comes from and in most cases I think I might act the same way if put in the same situation.
The only video I have ever seen where I thought the cop crossed the line with no provocation was when one slammed a kid so hard against a glass window that the window broke.
Kulaf wrote:I am not saying any cop who crosses the line shouldn't be subject to the law......what I AM saying is that I understand where it comes from and in most cases I think I might act the same way if put in the same situation.
Bullshit. You haven't only been expaining why some cops use excessive force and cross the line into criminal behavior. You've been justifying and excusing it, even going so far as saying that "excessive force" doesn't really exist at all. Kulaf said, "Compliance through pain is not excessive force. If a lawful authority orders you to comply, and you refuse, they will make you comply. Simple as that."
Kulaf wrote:The only video I have ever seen where I thought the cop crossed the line with no provocation was when one slammed a kid so hard against a glass window that the window broke.
Using your own arguments, you have no idea what happened before the camera started rolling so you don't know what the provocation was. But who cares. Cops aren't supposed to cross the line into criminal behavior regardless of the provocation.
And while everyone understands why some cops cross that line, this not being a "perfect sterile emotionless world" and all, everyone but you also understand that cops who lose control and committ illegal acts need to be weeded out.
Speaking as a nephew to two cops from pre-Miranda days, Kulaf's full of something, and it don't smell nice...
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant
"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.
Kulaf wrote:I am not saying any cop who crosses the line shouldn't be subject to the law......what I AM saying is that I understand where it comes from and in most cases I think I might act the same way if put in the same situation.
Bullshit. You haven't only been expaining why some cops use excessive force and cross the line into criminal behavior. You've been justifying and excusing it, even going so far as saying that "excessive force" doesn't really exist at all. Kulaf said, "Compliance through pain is not excessive force. If a lawful authority orders you to comply, and you refuse, they will make you comply. Simple as that."
Kulaf wrote:The only video I have ever seen where I thought the cop crossed the line with no provocation was when one slammed a kid so hard against a glass window that the window broke.
Using your own arguments, you have no idea what happened before the camera started rolling so you don't know what the provocation was. But who cares. Cops aren't supposed to cross the line into criminal behavior regardless of the provocation.
And while everyone understands why some cops cross that line, this not being a "perfect sterile emotionless world" and all, everyone but you also understand that cops who lose control and committ illegal acts need to be weeded out.
Compliance through pain is standard procedure. That's why cops learn chokes and carry night sticks. If you refuse to comply with lawful authority they are going to make you comply in a non-lethal manner. i suppose we could go back to the old West days where they warn you then pop you in the leg if you refuse to comply but then you might get all weepy.
Kulaf wrote:
I embody what is wrong with modern policing? Aren't you the guy who was teaching his parents how to use a gun to shoot people if their store ever got robbed? You sounded pretty vigilante back then now you trying to come off like the police hitting someone a few times is a huge deal? Gimmie a break.
Yes, you do embody what is wrong with policing. And no, I'm not the guy who is teaching his parents to use a gun. I don't even live in the same state as them. They USED to own a liquor store though, about 30 years ago. And while they owned it, they were robbed. Twice. In both instances the robbers were armed and threatened to kill. In both instances the robbers were shot dead. The first time by the clerk on duty, the second time by my mother (who subsequently entered therapy to help her through the emotional trauma of having to take a life).
And if you can't see the difference of reacting to imminent harm, versus dogpiling and beating an unconscious person... you're beyond hope. No one on the board would say a cop isn't justified in shooting someone that points a gun at him/her. Nor would they say an individual isn't justified in doing so either.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.
So if the cop that was about to get run down by the car had pulled his gun and shot the guy dead you're fine with it.....but a little beating afterward that the guy won't even remember is crossing the line? Got it.
Kulaf wrote:If you refuse to comply with lawful authority they are going to make you comply in a non-lethal manner
And what if those cops that tasered that bedridden old woman had killed her with the electric shock?
As I said, they easily could've restrained her without the use of a taser.
Kulaf wrote:So if the cop that was about to get run down by the car had pulled his gun and shot the guy dead you're fine with it.....but a little beating afterward that the guy won't even remember is crossing the line? Got it.
...
I can't even comprehend how fucked up your opinion is on all of this. Wrong is still wrong, it doesn't matter if they remember it or not.
Kulaf wrote:So if the cop that was about to get run down by the car had pulled his gun and shot the guy dead you're fine with it.....but a little beating afterward that the guy won't even remember is crossing the line? Got it.
Shootnig the guy as he tried to hit you with the car is justified. Beating a person after they are no longer a threat is not. In fact, its illegal. Its called battery.
And you've dodged this question a couple of times... what if they were beating the passenger?
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.
