600k jobs open

[Arathena]

You're missing the point.

In a country where the supposed American Dream is a house of your own, more people are choosing to rent because of weak banking, poor economic conditions, or insecurity about the future and we're supposed to pretend that everything is fine with the 99%?

Too funny.

So banks were bad evil monsters when they gave loans to people that never should have received them. Now they are bad evil monsters for actually qualifying people who want to buy a house. Making them prove such intrusive things like their income, and their ability to handle the mortgage payments.

The fact is Partha, its incredibly easy to get a house if you want one. FHA requirments are ridiculously easy to make. Only 3.5% down, closing costs can be financed and credit scores are easy to hit as well. So with $10,500, a person can get a $300,000 house.

... Partha's point, as I read it : Unemployment + Wage stagnation = bad housing market. Address the first two, and the third will fix itself.

[Embar Angylwrath]

You're missing the point.

In a country where the supposed American Dream is a house of your own, more people are choosing to rent because of weak banking, poor economic conditions, or insecurity about the future and we're supposed to pretend that everything is fine with the 99%?

Too funny.

So banks were bad evil monsters when they gave loans to people that never should have received them. Now they are bad evil monsters for actually qualifying people who want to buy a house. Making them prove such intrusive things like their income, and their ability to handle the mortgage payments.

The fact is Partha, its incredibly easy to get a house if you want one. FHA requirments are ridiculously easy to make. Only 3.5% down, closing costs can be financed and credit scores are easy to hit as well. So with $10,500, a person can get a $300,000 house.

... Partha's point, as I read it : Unemployment + Wage stagnation = bad housing market. Address the first two, and the third will fix itself.

Really? How will that "fix" the housing market? Unemployment + wage stagnation + forclosures + short sales = home prices getting pretty damend affordable. That, coupled with the incredibly low down payment of 3.5%, and getting a home hasn't been this easy in quite some time. Processing the glut of forclosures and short sales wioll do more to "fix" the market than just about anything else.

Caveat: Getting a home one can afford, and can manage the payments on.

And welcome back to the threads man.

[Kulaf]

The housing market went bad before unemployment skyrocketed. One could even make the arguement that unemployment insurance extensions have exaserbated the rental problems as people knowing their job was gone, and their mortgage was underwater, strategically defaulted and walked away from their mortgage and rented.

[Ddrak]

Really? How will that "fix" the housing market? Unemployment + wage stagnation + forclosures + short sales = home prices getting pretty damend affordable. That, coupled with the incredibly low down payment of 3.5%, and getting a home hasn't been this easy in quite some time. Processing the glut of forclosures and short sales wioll do more to "fix" the market than just about anything else.

I don't believe a housing market where prices go down is fixed. Ara, I believe, is referring to a market that provides a low risk return on investment instead of one where your best options include walking away from mortgages and stashing the savings in a mattress.

And you all make me sad with 30yr fixed rates, 3.5% down and $300k homes. Over here, you start at about $350k, pay around 6-7% interest, need 20% down unless you have awesome credit and only have ARMs available - all because the government doesn't subsidize home loans through tax breaks and risk acceptance. Makes any home owner over there one of the bigger welfare recipients around (but don't tell the GOP).

Dd

[Arathena]

Really? How will that "fix" the housing market? Unemployment + wage stagnation + forclosures + short sales = home prices getting pretty damend affordable. That, coupled with the incredibly low down payment of 3.5%, and getting a home hasn't been this easy in quite some time. Processing the glut of forclosures and short sales wioll do more to "fix" the market than just about anything else.

I don't believe a housing market where prices go down is fixed. Ara, I believe, is referring to a market that provides a low risk return on investment instead of one where your best options include walking away from mortgages and stashing the savings in a mattress.

And you all make me sad with 30yr fixed rates, 3.5% down and $300k homes. Over here, you start at about $350k, pay around 6-7% interest, need 20% down unless you have awesome credit and only have ARMs available - all because the government doesn't subsidize home loans through tax breaks and risk acceptance. Makes any home owner over there one of the bigger welfare recipients around (but don't tell the GOP).

Dd

You have to have the money to participate in the market at all before you can buy a home. People aren't going to move on an investment on a house until they know for certain they can buy and not be eating cat food. The combination of the garbage loans and the value bubble papered over the gigantic hole in the economy that is stagnating wages; the person nearer the median salary's wealth was entirely the inflation of the bubble, now that it's gone pop, about 40% of the average family's wealth is gone. We have no assets, we have no income, playing in the market is the same as dancing in a god damn bonfire while smoking a stick of dynamite and guzzling kerosene. A 30 yr loan on $300,000 is roughly half to two thirds our monthly income, before the ~100-120 mills of local property tax. Realistically, the exurbs around Pittsburgh where I work have much lower prices, but even at half the capital, we're still looking at a payment that's so large we couldn't eat. Entering the housing market would be economic suicide. We know it and the banks know it.

About 99% of the reason for this is simple: We are a 1.2 income family. There are months where a 40 hour per week minimum wage job would be a step up in pay for my wife, due to hours and the paltry pay schedule for adjunct professors; there are multiple months in the year where we plan for her not to get paid at all. We have to eat and pay our school loans before we can consider making a house payment. There is no money for us to spend unless major hiring is going on, both private sector for me and public sector for her.

The root of the pain in the housing market is the same as the root of the pain in EVERY market; the consumer has insufficient resources to consume.

[Partha]

The root of the pain in the housing market is the same as the root of the pain in EVERY market; the consumer has insufficient resources to consume.

Therefore, the solution is to give the Mitt Romneys of the world more money at the expense of their lessers.

[Arathena]

The root of the pain in the housing market is the same as the root of the pain in EVERY market; the consumer has insufficient resources to consume.

Therefore, the solution is to give the Mitt Romneys of the world more money at the expense of their lessers.

Of course! We're thirsty, and he'll have to piss eventually if he drinks enough!

[Embar Angylwrath]

Wow Ara.. that post is awful close to projecting an entitlement philosophy.

People find a way to purchase homes. FHA qualification is insanely easy, and a 3.5% down payment is manageable by most people. Just because your personal circumstances include unpredictable income that prevents you from purchasing a home, doesn't mean it fucked up for the vast majority of people. What it may mean is your financial conditions aren't conducive to owning a home right now, or buy a car, or taking a vacation, or whatever. Some people have to rent because of life circumstances. That's just the way it is.

[Arathena]

Wow Ara.. that post is awful close to projecting an entitlement philosophy.

People find a way to purchase homes. FHA qualification is insanely easy, and a 3.5% down payment is manageable by most people. Just because your personal circumstances include unpredictable income that prevents you from purchasing a home, doesn't mean it fucked up for the vast majority of people. What it may mean is your financial conditions aren't conducive to owning a home right now, or buy a car, or taking a vacation, or whatever. Some people have to rent because of life circumstances. That's just the way it is.

Yes, I know you see entitlement behind every shadow.

My sole point is this: If you expect people without money to buy expensive houses, you fucking crazy. If you can't meet the monthly payment, month in and month out, you don't take the loan. You rent on the cheap instead. That's the sort of shit that bubbled the market in the first place. Unemployed? You're not going house shopping. Underemployed? You're not going house shopping. And that's a lot more people than you want to pretend it is.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Yes, I would be crazy to expect "people without money to buy expensive homes." I am not advocating that.

I am saying that homes are more affordable now than in 2007. I am saying that for people that can handle the mortgage, buying a home is ridiculously easy.

What I'm hearing you say is you think that everyone should be able to buy a home, no matter their income circumstances. I hear you saying that you're pissed off that your familiy's unpredictable income doesn't allow you to buy a home. Welcome to reality. Not everyone can buy a home, not everyone should buy a home.

Where do you live? PA? Most homes in that state are mid 200s or less, unless you're in a couple special counties. If you can't scrape together $10K, then yes, sorry, but you are in no position ot buy a house. And at $200K, that's about $1,800/month on a mortage, including taxes and FHA PMI. Actually, its closer to $1,500. Most lenders are offering incentives that cover all other closing costs... just bring your downpayment to escrow and you're done.

[Ddrak]

Ara wasn't complaining he couldn't afford a house. He was saying the housing market wasn't fixed because he believed there was a significant section of the population that couldn't afford a house - not because they deserved one but because for the market to be considered "fixed" it would be open to them.

I don't think the market has ever been fixed. It's a welfare slush-fund that the government has to keep shovelling money into to avoid a complete rewrite of the 1950's "dream". Take away that entitlement money from homeowners and you get no long term fixed interest rates, higher interest rates and higher down-payments that rewrite the entire scene into a much scarier place to play.

Dd

[Kulaf]

But you also get home prices not increasing at alarming rates which place borderline owners into homes they can barely afford. That would be the counter balance......a more stable housing market that responsible borrowers would still be able to get into without driving the demand curve to the moon.

[Ddrak]

Not going to disagree with any of that, though oddly enough I think the banks still find ways to screw things up.

Dd

[Arathena]

Ara wasn't complaining he couldn't afford a house. He was saying the housing market wasn't fixed because he believed there was a significant section of the population that couldn't afford a house - not because they deserved one but because for the market to be considered "fixed" it would be open to them.

I don't think the market has ever been fixed. It's a welfare slush-fund that the government has to keep shovelling money into to avoid a complete rewrite of the 1950's "dream". Take away that entitlement money from homeowners and you get no long term fixed interest rates, higher interest rates and higher down-payments that rewrite the entire scene into a much scarier place to play.

Dd

In one. I don't have a house and I shouldn't have a house. I can't afford it.

What I want fixed isn't some magic loan that lets me buy a house. What I want fixed is this. The housing market will not hit bottom until demand exists. You can goose interest rates and down payments around all you want, but when the buyer cannot afford the capital over the term, there's no point. You want a housing market? Make it so people can demand housing, with dollars in hand.

[Partha]

Ara wasn't complaining he couldn't afford a house. He was saying the housing market wasn't fixed because he believed there was a significant section of the population that couldn't afford a house - not because they deserved one but because for the market to be considered "fixed" it would be open to them.

I don't think the market has ever been fixed. It's a welfare slush-fund that the government has to keep shovelling money into to avoid a complete rewrite of the 1950's "dream". Take away that entitlement money from homeowners and you get no long term fixed interest rates, higher interest rates and higher down-payments that rewrite the entire scene into a much scarier place to play.

Dd

In one. I don't have a house and I shouldn't have a house. I can't afford it.

What I want fixed isn't some magic loan that lets me buy a house. What I want fixed is this. The housing market will not hit bottom until demand exists. You can goose interest rates and down payments around all you want, but when the buyer cannot afford the capital over the term, there's no point. You want a housing market? Make it so people can demand housing, with dollars in hand.

That won't happen, because it's not in the GOP's interest to hand Mr. Scary Negro good economic news to get reelected with for now, and for later, they're fucking old school Tories. They believe they're 'better men' and 'lesser men' should just be fucking happy to suck bread crumbs off their nuts.

[Minute]

http://www.businessinsider.com/corporat ... low-2012-6

[Embar Angylwrath]

My understanding is that homes have largely fallen to near pre-boom levels. Are you saying the housing market was jacked up, pre-boom?