11 year old in military prison

Embar Angylwrath · Post by **Embar Angylwrath** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:06 pm

Beek,

Do you have evidence that the children were mistreated? Is that your argument? Because if not, it seems that your bitching about the location of the children's detention. Why should an address matter here? Isn't it the treatment that shouldbe an issue?

Saevrok · Post by **Saevrok** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:01 am

Beeker, shut your fucking piehole. Jesus christ your all talk. I want to see you march your tubby liberal ass into iraq and have a taste of reality, trust me, they wont give a fuck how humane you are when they either blow you up, shoot you, decapitate you or perhaps just torture you. You arent talking about children as you think of them. I have friends who are fighting, some dieing over there, some to those poor, little innocent 11 year old motherfuckers with automatic rifles and tnt.

You sit here and bang your hands and scream its not right. And you know you what, it isnt, its war, they want to kill us, and we want to kill them. Thats the end of the line, thats the entire point of war, its not for peace, its not for your sense of decency its to kill the living hell out of people that we dont like. Its extremists on both sides of the line, from the warmongers to tofu sucking little pissant self righteous holier than thou pacifists like yourself that have left the entire world completely fucked and spinning towards a global meltdown.

Climb down off your high horse and enjoy the real world, its ugly, its dirty, its not fair and its not right, and guess what, you had a hand in shaping it, we all did.

Am I saying I got the answers? I got a few, but none of them are even bordering on right. I still have yet to see you offer a reasonable suggestion as to how to un-brainwash an entire generation of people hellbent on death destruction and genocide.

Alannia_Raindancer · Post by **Alannia_Raindancer** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:56 am

Wow, Saev...

I got friends and family over there too. Some of them fighting, some are dying, some have died, and some of them are making a difference in more humanitarian ways. I pray every day to every god I've ever heard of that our soldiers and civillians get home safe, and I'm not the prayin' type.

If the children in these jails deserve to be there, so be it. But where the fuck do you draw that line, Saevrok? Cause they had a gun? Did they have a bomb? Do we even know? No, we don't. Once we know, then perhaps we can accuse this kid of killing our friends and family. Until then, we don't know, and that's that.

I don't have the correct answers either. I wish to God I did, but I don't.

Blowing everyone up is no better a plan than letting everyone go...it's just....not. Isn't that what got us into this mess in the first place? Someone thinking that they could solve their problems or make a statement by blowing everyone up?

Somewhere in the middle, I believe there is an answer. I trust our military to do what is right., to the best of their ability. I think sometimes, they need us "Pacifists" to help determine what "right" is. Not always by any means, but sometimes. Posts like yours reinforce that belief.

I'd go, if they'd take me, but they won't. I'm too old. And from what I hear, our country, as a general rule, doesn't want my female ass watching their back anyways. When I went to enlist 10 years ago, I was told that. Another female friend of mine was told that her 140 weight was too high. She dieted, and went again at 130, and was too low. They didn't want her.

You're right. It's war. There's a bunch of people out there that want our people dead. THAT'S worth worrying about, THAT'S worth wringing our hands over. I've never eaten tofu, but if wishing there was another way is a crime, then lock me the fuck up.

But if you think that the pacifists are the ones threatening a global meltdown, I think it only fair to remind you that we're not the ones holding the fucking weapons.

PS: I'm not a pacifist, really....I'm a practicalist. I understand that there are times when war is necessary, even when I wish it were not so. I also understand that blasting the hell out of everything that moves isn't practical, necessary, or required. I'd like to believe that somewhere in the middle, there is common ground. If these kids, regardless of age, are a threat, then lock 'em up. If they're not, let them the hell go. Imagined threats can be worse than real ones/

Alannia_Raindancer · Post by **Alannia_Raindancer** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:12 am

Forgot to mention, I concur with Embar. Relbeek, where's your beef here exactly, based on the information presented? Being held in a facility that had abuse, being held at all, or being held without trial? I'll go for the last, the other two are up for debate.

Harlowe · Post by **Harlowe** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:28 pm

Saevrok wrote:I have friends who are fighting, some dieing over there, some to those poor, little innocent 11 year old motherfuckers with automatic rifles and tnt.

Cut the drama, turn off the Lifetime network and rejoin the real world. You are starting to sound like a hystertical woman.

The level of shit in your post is second only to the State Fair Biffs.

Partha · Post by **Partha** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:46 pm

You know, you people get routinely trolled by Saevrok, and you never ever learn.

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:36 pm

You'll note I for one never take Saevrok seriously.

Embar: An 11 year old being held as a prisoner of war is prima facie mistreatment.

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:58 pm

Under what grounds?

Where is the outcry for the minors who shot up all the schools in the United States since they are not behind bars? Without such an outcry it is clear that the only source of your outrage over the imprisonment of a 11 year old in Iraq with the information you know is your own hypocrisy!

Embar Angylwrath · Post by **Embar Angylwrath** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:05 pm

Relbeek Einre wrote:You'll note I for one never take Saevrok seriously.

Embar: An 11 year old being held as a prisoner of war is prima facie mistreatment.

What do you do with an 11-year old who points a gun at you? For the sake of argument, lets say this kid fired on some soldiers. What would you do with him?

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:13 pm

Why I'd throw him in a dank hole where adults get tortured, because that'll straighten him up!

Partha · Post by **Partha** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:11 pm

Where is the outcry for the minors who shot up all the schools in the United States since they are not behind bars?

Please name a minor who did not serve time for shooting up a school. One name is all I require.

Embar Angylwrath · Post by **Embar Angylwrath** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:07 pm

Relbeek Einre wrote:Why I'd throw him in a dank hole where adults get tortured, because that'll straighten him up!

Well... don't expect us to take you serioulsy if you just want to dodge the issue. You're doing a lot of hand wringing without knowing what the kid did (or didn't do), and refusing to engage in the substantive issue of how to handle minors who may also be trying to kill you.

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:43 pm

For starters, unless the minor HAS tried to kill you, the question is moot. "MAY" doesn't cut it.

For second, if the issue of hostile minors is a real, then you need a place to put them that's specifically for minors - putting them in an adult prison, at least at the age of 11, is unconscionable.

Chants Evensong · Post by **Chants Evensong** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:30 am

No. What happened to prisoners under Saddam's regime is unconscionable. The type and kind of torture that went on under his regime was massively worse than anything that went on in our scandal.

Croinc · Post by **Croinc** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:39 am

I sometimes wonder if Beeker had a 20 year old son in Iraq, would he think the same? Probably not. Cause everything in Minnesota is quite, cute, and cuddley. Cause 11 year olds are all good, right? Cause we teach them the difference in right and wrong in America right?

Those people that flew planes into the WTC weren't bad, were they Beek? They were just "not taught right as children".

So ironic that Beeker will get on a soapbox about how bad fundamentalist Christian beliefs are, but then, will so quickly defend to the death the principals of fundamentalist Muslims.

Good job, turbo.

Partha · Post by **Partha** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:39 am

So ironic that Beeker will get on a soapbox about how bad fundamentalist Christian beliefs are, but then, will so quickly defend to the death the principals of fundamentalist Muslims.

Well, except for the fact that he hasn't, except in your own, logic challenged mind.

Embar Angylwrath · Post by **Embar Angylwrath** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:19 am

Chants -

In all fairness to Beek, that's not really valid response. It shouldn't matter what Saddam did or didn't do, because (I hope) we're not trying to use him as some sort of standard to measure ourselves by.

The real issue is whether or not\, as Beek put it, holding a child in a prison is prima facie evidence of mistreatment. I don't buy that. I don't accept that an address can perform abuse. I can easily see that there may have been separate quarters for children and women (and it fact, I can find nothing in any of the reports to suggest that women, children and men were all housed in some sort of general population).

Beek has to do better than that. I think he's finally accepted there may be legitimate circumstances in war when minors must be detained. He now has to convince us that an address is abuse. That a big leap.

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:30 am

Bah!

The question was supposed to be: Where is the outcry for the minors who shot up all the schools in the United States since they are behind bars?

The typo made the question illogical.

Relbeek,

For second, if the issue of hostile minors is a real, then you need a place to put them that's specifically for minors - putting them in an adult prison, at least at the age of 11, is unconscionable.

Why? You continue to make declerations of misdeeds without any logical basis for that conclusion. What makes the imprisonment of a 11yr old in a cell that is segregated from adult imates in this facility unconcionable?

Saevrok · Post by **Saevrok** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:15 pm

Heh, shoulda shot the kid instead of putting em in prision, would have been a lot less outcry apparently.

Saevrok · Post by **Saevrok** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:34 pm

And beeker, if you didnt notice, the prisions set up in iraq arent for rehabilitation, they are to remove combatants from the theatre without killing them.

Brell Rants

11 year old in military prison

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