Finally...we're off the whole motives argument. But I had to use the word "engrams" to do it. Talk about extreme measures.
Now if Partha and Jecks can stop calling each other irrational loons (they're both right IMNSHO) maybe we can get back to the ranting.
No Intentional Quran Abuse
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Ddrak
- Save a Koala, deport an Australian
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Jecks,
I didn't miss the word "alleged" at all. If you check my post you'll notice I clearly state that the General goes into details about each incident and how they were substantiated (or not as the case may be). Five of the 13 were clearly substantiated non-accidental abuse (although within the guidelines set at the time, probably pre-2003 when the stricter regulations and associated training came in), 6 others may have been perceived as legitimate abuse but no evidence one way or the other could be found and the remaining two could well have been perceived accidental abuse.
In other words, there were definitely substantiated claims of abuse. The General clearly said so. I absolutely notice the thoroughness of the DoD investigation but also with the caveat that it was only investigating military records, not strictly a trial with cross-examination and definitely not being done by an impartial entity.
Remember, people are going to correctly take this investigation with a grain of salt because the Army itself has a documented history of prisoner abuse at Gitmo, has an obvious vested interest in not finding fault with itself and is now asking us to trust us when they state they've investigated themselves without bias. Look at it another way - if Howard Dean told you they'd done a thorough investigation of voting fraud in Milwaukee and found a few minor instances that were within regulations, would you be inclined to take it at face value?
In addition, there's no proof Newsweek was wrong when it said the Koran was flushed. There's merely no evidence that they were correct. You know the difference there, I assume. Addressing your points direction though:
The U.S. Army has had special procedures for the handling of Korans since January of 2003
The U.S. Army has had prisoners in Gitmo since before 2003. In fact, one of the reports of abuse was what directly led to these procedures being put in place. It should also be asked whether the CIA is bound by the Army regulations?
I have seen quite a few Korans in my day and quite a few military toilets and am wondering about the physics involved in flushing one down
The alleged incident actually involved an asian style toilet (ie a hole in the ground). The mechanics are easy - you toss it in.
It would appear by the above statement by the DoD that Korans were mainly desecrated by muslim detainees and any desecration that allegedly happened by U.S. servicemen had been accidental.
Blatantly untrue. The General clearly stated that on 5 occurances the desecration was deliberate but within guidelines that were present *at the time* (making me strongly suspect it was pre-2003). I do agree that the inmates appear to have desecrated more Korans than the guards - do you usually measure the army's behavior as merely "better than suspected terrorists"? If I was in the Army, I think I'd be insulted.
I am wondering at the motivations of individuals such as Partha and Relbeek that would rather take the word of a few radical islamists over that of the DoD. Maybe not even there motivations......maybe simply pondering their personal sanity.
Like I said - if Dean announced the DNC investigated voter fraud with similar results as this investigation, what would your motivations be for being skeptical? I think it's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of an organization that has behaved badly in the past and now claims innocence on a purely internal investigation - don't you?
The fact is, calling motivations into question (or sanity or whatever) is dirty arguing and a pure logical fallacy. It's the cheap trick used by talk show hosts to deride their opponents and has no place in intelligent debate.
Eid,
You stirred up the motives debate. You certainly didn't finish it with engrams, you just lost it.
Dd
I didn't miss the word "alleged" at all. If you check my post you'll notice I clearly state that the General goes into details about each incident and how they were substantiated (or not as the case may be). Five of the 13 were clearly substantiated non-accidental abuse (although within the guidelines set at the time, probably pre-2003 when the stricter regulations and associated training came in), 6 others may have been perceived as legitimate abuse but no evidence one way or the other could be found and the remaining two could well have been perceived accidental abuse.
In other words, there were definitely substantiated claims of abuse. The General clearly said so. I absolutely notice the thoroughness of the DoD investigation but also with the caveat that it was only investigating military records, not strictly a trial with cross-examination and definitely not being done by an impartial entity.
Remember, people are going to correctly take this investigation with a grain of salt because the Army itself has a documented history of prisoner abuse at Gitmo, has an obvious vested interest in not finding fault with itself and is now asking us to trust us when they state they've investigated themselves without bias. Look at it another way - if Howard Dean told you they'd done a thorough investigation of voting fraud in Milwaukee and found a few minor instances that were within regulations, would you be inclined to take it at face value?
In addition, there's no proof Newsweek was wrong when it said the Koran was flushed. There's merely no evidence that they were correct. You know the difference there, I assume. Addressing your points direction though:
The U.S. Army has had special procedures for the handling of Korans since January of 2003
The U.S. Army has had prisoners in Gitmo since before 2003. In fact, one of the reports of abuse was what directly led to these procedures being put in place. It should also be asked whether the CIA is bound by the Army regulations?
I have seen quite a few Korans in my day and quite a few military toilets and am wondering about the physics involved in flushing one down
The alleged incident actually involved an asian style toilet (ie a hole in the ground). The mechanics are easy - you toss it in.
It would appear by the above statement by the DoD that Korans were mainly desecrated by muslim detainees and any desecration that allegedly happened by U.S. servicemen had been accidental.
Blatantly untrue. The General clearly stated that on 5 occurances the desecration was deliberate but within guidelines that were present *at the time* (making me strongly suspect it was pre-2003). I do agree that the inmates appear to have desecrated more Korans than the guards - do you usually measure the army's behavior as merely "better than suspected terrorists"? If I was in the Army, I think I'd be insulted.
I am wondering at the motivations of individuals such as Partha and Relbeek that would rather take the word of a few radical islamists over that of the DoD. Maybe not even there motivations......maybe simply pondering their personal sanity.
Like I said - if Dean announced the DNC investigated voter fraud with similar results as this investigation, what would your motivations be for being skeptical? I think it's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of an organization that has behaved badly in the past and now claims innocence on a purely internal investigation - don't you?
The fact is, calling motivations into question (or sanity or whatever) is dirty arguing and a pure logical fallacy. It's the cheap trick used by talk show hosts to deride their opponents and has no place in intelligent debate.
Eid,
You stirred up the motives debate. You certainly didn't finish it with engrams, you just lost it.
Dd
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Eidolon Faer
- The Dark Lord of Felwithe
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Ddrak,
Don't be obtuse.
Jecks was going after you by claiming that you're just fixated on this because you hate America / George Bush / Western Civilization / whatever and was showing all the signs of continuing in that vein until you stopped replying. Why do you want the allegations to be true, indeed.
It's an unprovable argument either way. Seriously, you didn't twig to the fact that I was giggling so hard I could barely type? Even when you called me "a fool who has to attack people instead of their arguments" and I called you intellectually dishonest in reply?
Crikey, "You have a clear and vested interest in denying what your motives are, so you can continue to claim that anyone noticing them is making ad hominem attacks." isn't just Rsakian logic, it's Monty Python-esque. Any attempt Jecks made to persue the attack after a marvel like that would have been futile.
Sorry if I was in a whimsical mood when apparently you weren't.
Don't be obtuse.
Jecks was going after you by claiming that you're just fixated on this because you hate America / George Bush / Western Civilization / whatever and was showing all the signs of continuing in that vein until you stopped replying. Why do you want the allegations to be true, indeed.
It's an unprovable argument either way. Seriously, you didn't twig to the fact that I was giggling so hard I could barely type? Even when you called me "a fool who has to attack people instead of their arguments" and I called you intellectually dishonest in reply?
Crikey, "You have a clear and vested interest in denying what your motives are, so you can continue to claim that anyone noticing them is making ad hominem attacks." isn't just Rsakian logic, it's Monty Python-esque. Any attempt Jecks made to persue the attack after a marvel like that would have been futile.
Sorry if I was in a whimsical mood when apparently you weren't.
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Eidolon Faer
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Relbeek Einre
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Ddrak
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Yeah - I missed it I guess. Almost had a reply typed out about you channeling Beek when you came out with the Intellectual Dishonesty but decided to drop it.Sorry if I was in a whimsical mood when apparently you weren't.
If Jecks would stop slacking and get on AIM we could have carried the argument further I'm sure but the bugger is sticking offline.
Dd
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Eidolon Faer
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clubbin
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Jecks wrote:
Whether it was physically flushed down the toilet is a mere technicality to base an argument on. Jecks' claim is that his original statement was that it was never flushed down the toilet. Does that mean that if it was not flushed down the toilet then other abuse could have or could not have taken place? That is the real issue; the toilet has little to do with it. If you think American interrogators are above such abuse then you are a fool.
Nothing in foreign diplomatic history has ever been a cut and dry, black and white issue. Trusting everything the government tells you is just ignorant -- I don't care who is in power. I think everyone would agree with that statement on the surface, but just take a look around. Is that really practice in modern America? Look at all the brilliant minds on this board spewing regurgitated information from the 2'x2' box that sits on top of their necks. Why does everyone else hate freedom?
I do wonder how Newsweek feels now having seen the repercussions of the story. As I understand it they "took back" what they said in the story because they could not come up with any proof. Does that mean they made up the story, or that they would not rat out the person who tipped them on the story? I suppose there could be other explanations, but personally I suspect the latter. I suppose that makes me one who wants the allegations to be true as well?
Why does it have to be taking the word of one or the other? Because Relbeek and Partha don't trust what the DoD says, then they want the allegations to be true? Give me a break; that is just the pinnacle of American arrogance and stupidity. A common theme on this board, and in American politics of course, is you're either on one side or the other. You're either with us or against us and its nauseating. Personally, I don't trust either side. I was in London last week when the "Angry Islamists" were burning American flags and chanting anti-American, Bush, and Blair slurs in front of the embassy. I don't trust those assholes. But because I don't trust them doesn't mean I automatically trust the government. You are allowed to formulate your own opinions, fyi.I am wondering at the motivations of individuals such as Partha and Relbeek that would rather take the word of a few radical islamists over that of the DoD.
Whether it was physically flushed down the toilet is a mere technicality to base an argument on. Jecks' claim is that his original statement was that it was never flushed down the toilet. Does that mean that if it was not flushed down the toilet then other abuse could have or could not have taken place? That is the real issue; the toilet has little to do with it. If you think American interrogators are above such abuse then you are a fool.
Nothing in foreign diplomatic history has ever been a cut and dry, black and white issue. Trusting everything the government tells you is just ignorant -- I don't care who is in power. I think everyone would agree with that statement on the surface, but just take a look around. Is that really practice in modern America? Look at all the brilliant minds on this board spewing regurgitated information from the 2'x2' box that sits on top of their necks. Why does everyone else hate freedom?
I do wonder how Newsweek feels now having seen the repercussions of the story. As I understand it they "took back" what they said in the story because they could not come up with any proof. Does that mean they made up the story, or that they would not rat out the person who tipped them on the story? I suppose there could be other explanations, but personally I suspect the latter. I suppose that makes me one who wants the allegations to be true as well?
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Eidolon Faer
- The Dark Lord of Felwithe
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:25 pm
Clubbin...
You're being as silly as Jecks if not moreso in some ways.
Jecks' argument regarding the physics of flushing a book down a military toilet IS relevant to the question of Newsweek's journalistic integrity. It's a statement that, if you stop to think about it, the story is absurd as written, much like the CBS memos stuck out like a sore thumb to anyone who's old enough to have actually seen the output of an electric typewriter.
It's a statement that, if the reporters really knew what they were talking about, they'd have said "waitaminute" before they ran with what they wrote. Not as glaringly as those CBS memos perhaps, but still.
A wholly separate issue in this debate is whether Newsweek is in some sense culpable for the RESULTS of that story. The answer there is no. The people responsible for the murder and destruction are the ones who committed it.
Finally, there are those who'll seek to use the story of Newsweek's journalistic booboo as a political axe to grind.
There are the conservatives, such as Jecks, who'll attempt to draw the conclusion that Newsweek engaged in a deliberate fraud to undermine Administration policy. I don't subscribe to those theories because we don't have an impending election, we don't have direct phone calls between Newsweek and the Kerry campaign staff, and because Newsweek isn't spending three weeks defending their story in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. They've already disavowed it even though the case against it is far weaker than it was in Rathergate.
Then, of course, there are the lefties who predictably scream "how dare you question my patriotism?" Frankly, in this case, there's no evidence of malicious intent, unlike in Rathergate. Since Jecks is unable to draw a convincing link between Newsweek printing an erroneous story and some mythical cabal of journalists printing falsified stories at the behest of dark masters within the DNC, just laugh at him. Getting outraged weakens your position.
You're being as silly as Jecks if not moreso in some ways.
Jecks' argument regarding the physics of flushing a book down a military toilet IS relevant to the question of Newsweek's journalistic integrity. It's a statement that, if you stop to think about it, the story is absurd as written, much like the CBS memos stuck out like a sore thumb to anyone who's old enough to have actually seen the output of an electric typewriter.
It's a statement that, if the reporters really knew what they were talking about, they'd have said "waitaminute" before they ran with what they wrote. Not as glaringly as those CBS memos perhaps, but still.
A wholly separate issue in this debate is whether Newsweek is in some sense culpable for the RESULTS of that story. The answer there is no. The people responsible for the murder and destruction are the ones who committed it.
Finally, there are those who'll seek to use the story of Newsweek's journalistic booboo as a political axe to grind.
There are the conservatives, such as Jecks, who'll attempt to draw the conclusion that Newsweek engaged in a deliberate fraud to undermine Administration policy. I don't subscribe to those theories because we don't have an impending election, we don't have direct phone calls between Newsweek and the Kerry campaign staff, and because Newsweek isn't spending three weeks defending their story in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. They've already disavowed it even though the case against it is far weaker than it was in Rathergate.
Then, of course, there are the lefties who predictably scream "how dare you question my patriotism?" Frankly, in this case, there's no evidence of malicious intent, unlike in Rathergate. Since Jecks is unable to draw a convincing link between Newsweek printing an erroneous story and some mythical cabal of journalists printing falsified stories at the behest of dark masters within the DNC, just laugh at him. Getting outraged weakens your position.
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Eidolon Faer
- The Dark Lord of Felwithe
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Oh...and as an aside.
The left trying to turn the story around into an attack on the right didn't work. It was tried with Rathergate (Well, okay, the memos were forged but the story is still true, and YOU'RE QUESTIONING MY PATRIOTISM YOU BASTARDS!!!111 That's BAD!!!111)
Didn't work then, won't work now. Newsweek's disavowed the story. Don't try it.
The left trying to turn the story around into an attack on the right didn't work. It was tried with Rathergate (Well, okay, the memos were forged but the story is still true, and YOU'RE QUESTIONING MY PATRIOTISM YOU BASTARDS!!!111 That's BAD!!!111)
Didn't work then, won't work now. Newsweek's disavowed the story. Don't try it.
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Trollbait
There are the conservatives, such as Jecks, who'll attempt to draw the conclusion that Newsweek engaged in a deliberate fraud to undermine Administration policy.
I never made any such statement nor did I even infer deliberation of action by Newsweek. In fact in this and previous discussions on the subject it is a decided LACK of deliberation by Newsweek that is at issue.
Since Jecks is unable to draw a convincing link between Newsweek printing an erroneous story and some mythical cabal of journalists printing falsified stories at the behest of dark masters within the DNC, just laugh at him.
I have no idea where you got this......are you drunk?
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Trollbait
P.S. Clubbin~ Why did you type all that retardedness out? You are not usually a troll. If you really think my positions are even remotely close to what you accused me of then you must have missed quite a few posts of mine in the past. Notice how Relbeek is WAY to cagey to bite. I am frankly hugely disappointed.
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crimsontide27
- Fellow n00b
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:07 pm
This topic is so outrageous I had to reply.
Have any of you sorry mofos been overseas? Dealt with Muslims? Understand what is going on in the outside world other that Norrath?
Just because you have outstanding posting skillz, cut and paste links like pros, and believe everything you read...It doesnt mean you know everything.
I see flames back and forth over political position, who likes who, etc...., but if you cant read between the lines, I encourage you to join the real world.
Our SoP regarding Muslims Koran is extensive. Muslims use their religion and their beliefs ONLY when it benefits them. Soldiers long knew that they were smuggling knives, drugs, messages etc in the middle of their Korans, yet because of the American militarys strict guides, the soldiers were scared to even touch them. Our own government and justice system is just as bad or worse than the Arabs.
During my time in Iraq, we saw extensive violations of the Muslim belief. I saw someone post about an American MP strip and sit on a mans lap...WOW...must be nice form of torture, sure is alot better than what happend to the American PoWs wasnt it. Killed right there on video tape and broadcast around there world for everyone to see. Before you say its against Muslim belief...get a motherfucking clue. People over there raping, killing, torturing,looting, murdering, etc.... anything and everything you want and can imagine was going over there when cities went into anarchy. And this was Muslim vs Muslim.
Islam is only convienent when they want it to be. Dying in a Jihad is the top honor for a muslim. Around every corner, they are trying to make this a religious war and it is not. Many Iraqi's supported us when we were there, but over time, with America allowing free press and people to just make up stories about the US occupation.....we have lost that. Our very freedoms and beliefs are what are causing us to lose.
No, I do not at all believe our goverment all the time either, heck..not even most of the time. But I do know first hand what was and is going on in Iraq, and with Muslims worldwide. Propaganda is the best way to incite hatred ( even more so than they have already ) against the US.
If the US is so fucking bad to the Muslims, why do they constantly ask for our help??
Hell, just look at the last 16 years or so, and almost if not all major comflicts we have been involved in...has been in HELPING Muslims.
I feel sorry for yall ignorant fucks that sit at work or home, have 1000s of posts, yet are beyond cluess of anything that happens outside of the range of your keyboard.
If you want to prove me wrong, the military is currently offering a 15 month active duty enlistment, just go to the recruiters office, sign the dotted line about 300 times, say you want to go to Iraq, and THEN post first hand your experiences with Muslims / the koran / and your fellow american media machine.
I continue to mention the Iraq situation because I was there. Islam is Islam, and all this negative publicty is only there to incite riots and non-tolerence of anyone not Muslim.
What happens in GItmo affects us in Iraq, anytime Islam is brought into the mix, Tens of thousands of Americans are at risk overseas, just so someone can have < the hot story of the day>
Have any of you sorry mofos been overseas? Dealt with Muslims? Understand what is going on in the outside world other that Norrath?
Just because you have outstanding posting skillz, cut and paste links like pros, and believe everything you read...It doesnt mean you know everything.
I see flames back and forth over political position, who likes who, etc...., but if you cant read between the lines, I encourage you to join the real world.
Our SoP regarding Muslims Koran is extensive. Muslims use their religion and their beliefs ONLY when it benefits them. Soldiers long knew that they were smuggling knives, drugs, messages etc in the middle of their Korans, yet because of the American militarys strict guides, the soldiers were scared to even touch them. Our own government and justice system is just as bad or worse than the Arabs.
During my time in Iraq, we saw extensive violations of the Muslim belief. I saw someone post about an American MP strip and sit on a mans lap...WOW...must be nice form of torture, sure is alot better than what happend to the American PoWs wasnt it. Killed right there on video tape and broadcast around there world for everyone to see. Before you say its against Muslim belief...get a motherfucking clue. People over there raping, killing, torturing,looting, murdering, etc.... anything and everything you want and can imagine was going over there when cities went into anarchy. And this was Muslim vs Muslim.
Islam is only convienent when they want it to be. Dying in a Jihad is the top honor for a muslim. Around every corner, they are trying to make this a religious war and it is not. Many Iraqi's supported us when we were there, but over time, with America allowing free press and people to just make up stories about the US occupation.....we have lost that. Our very freedoms and beliefs are what are causing us to lose.
No, I do not at all believe our goverment all the time either, heck..not even most of the time. But I do know first hand what was and is going on in Iraq, and with Muslims worldwide. Propaganda is the best way to incite hatred ( even more so than they have already ) against the US.
If the US is so fucking bad to the Muslims, why do they constantly ask for our help??
Hell, just look at the last 16 years or so, and almost if not all major comflicts we have been involved in...has been in HELPING Muslims.
I feel sorry for yall ignorant fucks that sit at work or home, have 1000s of posts, yet are beyond cluess of anything that happens outside of the range of your keyboard.
If you want to prove me wrong, the military is currently offering a 15 month active duty enlistment, just go to the recruiters office, sign the dotted line about 300 times, say you want to go to Iraq, and THEN post first hand your experiences with Muslims / the koran / and your fellow american media machine.
I continue to mention the Iraq situation because I was there. Islam is Islam, and all this negative publicty is only there to incite riots and non-tolerence of anyone not Muslim.
What happens in GItmo affects us in Iraq, anytime Islam is brought into the mix, Tens of thousands of Americans are at risk overseas, just so someone can have < the hot story of the day>
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Trollbait
What happens in GItmo affects us in Iraq, anytime Islam is brought into the mix, Tens of thousands of Americans are at risk overseas, just so someone can have < the hot story of the day>
That right there is bullshit. I am going to risk being accused of beating my chest so that I may reply to this.
Having been to places just on the near side of Hell and seen things I would rather forget I know where you are coming from. In any situation where you are losing your own humanity one firefight at a time it is easy to become frustrated with the divisions and politics back in the world. For a soldier things are very absolute. Black and white. But what you are suggesting is wrong.
If, for the sake of avoiding risk to the soldiers serving overseas, we were to limit the press we would throw away the very thing that makes our country great. What use is it for a soldier to fight for the freedom of the Iraqi people and then return to a country where those freedoms are stifled.
I am not talking about revealing state secrets that may endanger our troops. I am talking about situations where a news story may cause people to have ill will towards our troops. If this story run by Newsweek had been true I would say by all means report it. Investigative journalism is a vital check on the powers that would be out of control if not for a vigilant media.
Stifle the press, my friend, and an Orwellian society would be a heaven compared to what would become of this nation.
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Ddrak
- Save a Koala, deport an Australian
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Crimsontide,
You're an ignorant fuck aren't you? I suggest you pull your head from your ass and recognize that everyone in this thread is probably more aware of what is going on in the world that you are, if that pile of flaming orwellian tripe is anything to go by. The only thing I can think is you are trying to troll, but it's really not effective.
The real indication of your idiocy is here:
I saw someone post about an American MP strip and sit on a mans lap...WOW...must be nice form of torture, sure is alot better than what happend to the American PoWs wasnt it. Killed right there on video tape and broadcast around there world for everyone to see.
In simple terms, you are saying it's US troops are ok, as long as they are better than terrorists? What an insult! If you do wear a uniform (which I doubt), you've just rubbed shit all over it. Just a small clue for you - no soldier worth respect measures their morality against the acts of the enemy. They follow their own code, and to even compare the code of a true soldier with the code of a terrorist is a complete disgrace and a clear indication that you don't even have the first clue what being a soldier means.
So, somehow I don't believe you were in the army, or have been in Iraq, or have done anything for this country except to abandon it's very founding principles of freedom. Maybe one day you'll grow up and understand what being free actually means but until then, go back and crawl into your mom's basement and quit pretending to be a soldier.
Dumbass. Listen to real soldiers like Jecks before pretending to be one yourself.
Dd
You're an ignorant fuck aren't you? I suggest you pull your head from your ass and recognize that everyone in this thread is probably more aware of what is going on in the world that you are, if that pile of flaming orwellian tripe is anything to go by. The only thing I can think is you are trying to troll, but it's really not effective.
The real indication of your idiocy is here:
I saw someone post about an American MP strip and sit on a mans lap...WOW...must be nice form of torture, sure is alot better than what happend to the American PoWs wasnt it. Killed right there on video tape and broadcast around there world for everyone to see.
In simple terms, you are saying it's US troops are ok, as long as they are better than terrorists? What an insult! If you do wear a uniform (which I doubt), you've just rubbed shit all over it. Just a small clue for you - no soldier worth respect measures their morality against the acts of the enemy. They follow their own code, and to even compare the code of a true soldier with the code of a terrorist is a complete disgrace and a clear indication that you don't even have the first clue what being a soldier means.
So, somehow I don't believe you were in the army, or have been in Iraq, or have done anything for this country except to abandon it's very founding principles of freedom. Maybe one day you'll grow up and understand what being free actually means but until then, go back and crawl into your mom's basement and quit pretending to be a soldier.
Dumbass. Listen to real soldiers like Jecks before pretending to be one yourself.
Dd
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crimsontide27
- Fellow n00b
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:07 pm
Lol you have got to be kidding me.
Guess rant board is the real world. If so, you are certainly more aware than I, I give that too ya. Until you get your sorry ass off the rant board, and realize what is really going on overseas, I suggest you keep your theorys have how things are supposed to be, and how they are.
If you want a pretty world where the world is perfect, go back to your god damned nintendo
so you can hit the reset button when things arent how you like it. I have been to Iraq, have you? I have dealt with Muslims and their ( Ill use Islam when its in my best interest to do so ) technique.
Yup, you right...guess I smear shit all over the uniform. Sure smelt like it after 6 months being over there anyways. Once you get away from your keyboard, go play in the sand for awhile, your comments are worthless. Any real soldier knows whats going on over there, and we are catering to every whim that those people choose for the day. Until your name gets put on the DA-6, and you go to guard duty, and watch muslims come at you shooting at you with a group of women and children around them so you wont fire back, until you detaint the same man that shoots and kills your fellow soldiers. until you join my ranks...stfu.
Islam is for pure pussys, pure and simple. Just like the <Holy> church goers who think they can do as they please during the whole week, because they go to church on Sunday.
If you dont like the things we do here ddrak, feel free to leave.
Guess rant board is the real world. If so, you are certainly more aware than I, I give that too ya. Until you get your sorry ass off the rant board, and realize what is really going on overseas, I suggest you keep your theorys have how things are supposed to be, and how they are.
If you want a pretty world where the world is perfect, go back to your god damned nintendo
so you can hit the reset button when things arent how you like it. I have been to Iraq, have you? I have dealt with Muslims and their ( Ill use Islam when its in my best interest to do so ) technique.
Yup, you right...guess I smear shit all over the uniform. Sure smelt like it after 6 months being over there anyways. Once you get away from your keyboard, go play in the sand for awhile, your comments are worthless. Any real soldier knows whats going on over there, and we are catering to every whim that those people choose for the day. Until your name gets put on the DA-6, and you go to guard duty, and watch muslims come at you shooting at you with a group of women and children around them so you wont fire back, until you detaint the same man that shoots and kills your fellow soldiers. until you join my ranks...stfu.
Islam is for pure pussys, pure and simple. Just like the <Holy> church goers who think they can do as they please during the whole week, because they go to church on Sunday.
If you dont like the things we do here ddrak, feel free to leave.
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Ddrak
- Save a Koala, deport an Australian
- Posts: 17516
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:00 pm
- Location: Straya mate!
- Contact:
Aww... poor little baby got all upset from words?
Here's some reality for you (seeing you seem somewhat devoid of it's experiences):
i) You can't tell me to STFU. You've not earned my respect for that to make a difference.
ii) If my comments are "worthless", what does that imply about the idiot who argues with them?
iii) You still don't understand the meaning of "freedom" if you are trying to silence me.
iv) Joining the Army doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid
v) I'm staying. If you don't like it, how about you leave - you obviously don't like the freedoms America gives. Perhaps North Korea would be more to your liking?
and most importantly,
I have never criticised the actions of soldiers in Iraq or Gitmo, so what the hell are you going on about? In your poor wounded pride you've clearly not even bothered to read the thread, or even understand what is actually going on here. You just came in and assumed you had a clue and in doing so promptly proved that you were completely devoid of one.
Now go baack to your mother's basement and cry into your vodka or something. You're boring, irrelavent and need to learn what America is and stands for. I suggest the Declaration of Independance is a good place to start, and after that the Constitution - which if you were really in the military you'd know that you'd sworn to defend.
Still - your choice. Keep posting and proving idiocy and ignorance, or get out and learn a bit about the world. You claim to know it, but your posts deny that.
Like I said before, you could learn a great deal about what it means to be a soldier by shutting up and listening to real soldiers like Jecks. Quit your whining and learn something.
I feel confident you won't though, losers like you rarely do.
Dd
Here's some reality for you (seeing you seem somewhat devoid of it's experiences):
i) You can't tell me to STFU. You've not earned my respect for that to make a difference.
ii) If my comments are "worthless", what does that imply about the idiot who argues with them?
iii) You still don't understand the meaning of "freedom" if you are trying to silence me.
iv) Joining the Army doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid
v) I'm staying. If you don't like it, how about you leave - you obviously don't like the freedoms America gives. Perhaps North Korea would be more to your liking?
and most importantly,
I have never criticised the actions of soldiers in Iraq or Gitmo, so what the hell are you going on about? In your poor wounded pride you've clearly not even bothered to read the thread, or even understand what is actually going on here. You just came in and assumed you had a clue and in doing so promptly proved that you were completely devoid of one.
Now go baack to your mother's basement and cry into your vodka or something. You're boring, irrelavent and need to learn what America is and stands for. I suggest the Declaration of Independance is a good place to start, and after that the Constitution - which if you were really in the military you'd know that you'd sworn to defend.
Still - your choice. Keep posting and proving idiocy and ignorance, or get out and learn a bit about the world. You claim to know it, but your posts deny that.
Like I said before, you could learn a great deal about what it means to be a soldier by shutting up and listening to real soldiers like Jecks. Quit your whining and learn something.
I feel confident you won't though, losers like you rarely do.
Dd
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crimsontide27
- Fellow n00b
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:07 pm
And what makes Jecks a real soldier? Im curious, I dont know him well.
You make a comment about North Korea, I was stationed 20 miles south of DMZ as well, wish to question that as well??
Guess I dont understand freedom either? Yet Ive been overseas twice, protecting the freedom of one, and giving freedom to the other...Nope..you right...I have no clue.
Nope, joining Army doesnt make my opinion more or less valid, however I have been there, lived in the situation...and know how it works. Unlike you....
Im quite content where I am, it is you that has the problems. Soon as you even hint at it was just as wrong for a bitz to sit in a man lap, as it was for out soldiers to be executed on TV...well...nothing more need to be said about that.
If it wasnt for the US military, these people wouldnt have freedom, including you
You make a comment about North Korea, I was stationed 20 miles south of DMZ as well, wish to question that as well??
Guess I dont understand freedom either? Yet Ive been overseas twice, protecting the freedom of one, and giving freedom to the other...Nope..you right...I have no clue.
Nope, joining Army doesnt make my opinion more or less valid, however I have been there, lived in the situation...and know how it works. Unlike you....
Im quite content where I am, it is you that has the problems. Soon as you even hint at it was just as wrong for a bitz to sit in a man lap, as it was for out soldiers to be executed on TV...well...nothing more need to be said about that.
If it wasnt for the US military, these people wouldnt have freedom, including you