Colorado Movie Theater Shooting

[Ddrak]

Wow...I wonder if that was popular in Norway...

From all accounts, extremely popular. I think it's the exact right way to treat massacres like this because (as I keep saying) they are such a low percentage risk that worrying about it isn't worth the time or effort. Deal with the bigger problems first (hint: it's not guns).

Stats (I believe - really needs confirmation for the US, but is true in Aus) show that owning a gun puts you at higher risk. That makes it a poor bet for any sort of defense, but stats are a mash of everyone and I can appreciate that a well trained individual could readily make good use of a handgun, just the majority of people are idiots (we knew that anyway).

Most laws are to protect the majority from the minority. Without road rules, 98% of people would behave just fine.

Dd

[Tarfang_Trubasher]

DDrak - I can only start you at the FBI CIUS (Crime in the United States) "database"...

The FBI tracks gun sales and crimes as correlative data. The glitch with any statistic is you can interpret the data in a myriad of ways. Correlation doesn't equal causation in most cases.

A few, quick articles: Daily Caller and Washington Times offer some commentary. Sometimes the comments are also worthwhile.

-TF

[Freecare Spiritwise]

I believe that statistically speaking, pacifism is the most effective form of self defense. Though I reserve the right to do whatever it takes to keep my family safe. And as my dad points out, when the bear eats me in the woods, it doesn't know that I'm a pacifist. I still own and occasionally practice with various martial arts weapons/knives/batons, but I couldn't imagine using them to harm another human being, and even then it would be just enough to get away. If it's just a matter of someone wanting my shit at gunpoint, then they can have my shit - I'll get new shit. Also, we have a 2 minute police response time here in the snooty part of town.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

Kids Can Open Gun Safes With Straws and Paper Clips, Researchers Say

But the researchers found similar problems with several brands of personal safes that are marketed for securing guns and other valuables. Toby Bluzmanis, Marc Weber Tobias, and Matt Fiddler demonstrated in videos that they were able to swiftly open seven models of safes, using household items like paper clips, a wire hanger and a drinking straw. In one case, they opened a safe simply by lightly bouncing it on a floor once.

It’s estimated that about a fifth of all households own a handgun, according to a study by the American Journal of Preventive Medicine. About 500 teens and children are killed accidentally each year with guns, some of them by handguns stored in their homes.

[Ddrak]

Correlation doesn't equal causation in most cases.

I dunno about that. Correlation is highly correlated with causation.


I'm also aware gun ownership is largely uncorrelated with crime. If you take a small enough sample you can find places where they are negatively correlated. It's why despite my belief that society is better without a saturation of weapons designed specifically to kill, there's a lot more important things to deal with. If my house is burning down, I don't care much about the dirty dishes.

Dd

[Kliban Nimbledigits]

Kids Can Open Gun Safes With Straws and Paper Clips, Researchers Say

But the researchers found similar problems with several brands of personal safes that are marketed for securing guns and other valuables. Toby Bluzmanis, Marc Weber Tobias, and Matt Fiddler demonstrated in videos that they were able to swiftly open seven models of safes, using household items like paper clips, a wire hanger and a drinking straw. In one case, they opened a safe simply by lightly bouncing it on a floor once.

It’s estimated that about a fifth of all households own a handgun, according to a study by the American Journal of Preventive Medicine. About 500 teens and children are killed accidentally each year with guns, some of them by handguns stored in their homes.

Easy fix. Don't have kids.

[Tarfang_Trubasher]

That would be why we chose education for our house. Nothing prevents children from accessing/finding guns if they're looking. Knowledge is power....

-TF

[Massterloo]

So I actually went to see the movie yesterday.


Meh...
I won't give spoilers.



But they kept to the comic for this, but not for that.

We'll throw in a red herring here....sell it to the audience, and even to everyone that knows is lie, then totaly forget to use it later.
We'll give you the smallest of clues, and demand you remember it.

The bad guys know too much for a reason, then they know too much, and the good guys can't figure out how they knew, and refuse to use it when they do figure it out.

Throw in a few hollywood cliche's.
Toss in one - Really? You want me to buy THAT?


I ve never been, and never will be one of those people "that just goes with it" when it comes to too much over the top, and or plot holes.
We'll spend soooooo much time writing the characters well, but wont fix the plot holes, and keep the story tight.
3 hours of - looks good, feels meh.
At least it wasnt 3D, that would have cost more.

[Mukik]

Theres more behind the second amendment then just personal security. Whether that still applies or not is the real debate.

[Ddrak]

Theres more behind the second amendment then just personal security. Whether that still applies or not is the real debate.

The USSC pretty much settled the 2nd amendment debates last year. It gives you the individual right to a firearm, and until it is repealed (lol) will continue to do so. Whether it's a *good* idea is another question, but a sufficently controversial one to keep the discussion alive but not clear enough to ever make constitutional change.

Dd

[Ddrak]

Interesting read

That’s what Holmes figured out. Defense, not offense, is the next stage of the gun-violence arms race. Equipping citizens with concealed weapons doesn’t stop bad guys. It just pushes them to the next level. The next level is body armor. And unlike missile defense, which has proved to be complicated and disappointing, body armor is relatively simple.

Being armed doesn't help when it's not a significant threat to the bad guys.

Dd

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Gun laws don't stop bad guys either. So whats the solution, Dd?

[Ddrak]

Gun laws don't stop bad guys either. So whats the solution, Dd?

You need to rephrase that - it's "Gun laws don't stop all bad guys".

How do you stop any arms race - you work a plan to draw down the level of arms, usually by constricting supply in some way. When supply is already saturated then you've got to work for the long term and not expect overnight results.

Dd

[Tarfang_Trubasher]

The natural response to the body armor argument is that while the bullet certainly doesn't penetrate (though over time, it can - bullets "tear" the armor) --- the sheer force of the bullet still breaks bones and can cause internal bleeding from the shock of the impact. Also, body armor was designed to only withstand an "X" amount of hits (the link submitted below reflects "5 fair hits") before deformation and deterioration occurs. This is why many are taught to put two shots, center mass into their target. Two hits to the chest is cracking a collarbone, shattering some ribs, and making a heart skip a beat.

I can only offer a dated citation (1992) as I'm in a bit of a rush. I'd be interested in an updated version of this study. Here is the link: Police Body Armor Standards and Testing

The summary begins on page 23 of the document if you don't want to read the data.

[EDIT] I wanted to add that my carry pistol is a .40 caliber Ruger SR40. That caliber has a muzzle velocity of 1050 ft/sec with a pressure of 33,000 PSI. It takes roughly 15 PSI to crack a skull and 7 PSI to break a rib bone. [/EDIT]

-TF

[Partha]

Remember the North Hollywood shootout? Both suspects took multiple wounds through the body armor and still kept going. No wingnut with a pistol was gonna stop this guy.

[Ddrak]

@Tarfang,

The article I linked has dozens of links in it to up-to-date studies and standards. This guy was wearing Type IV body armor capable of stopping a half dozen AP .30 caliber rifle rounds (M2). Your Ruger would bounce off him like throwing sand. Unless you're choosing to carry a .50-cal chain gun around, shooting at him would only guarantee your death.

Dd

[Massterloo]

unless you shot him in the head.

(Waiting for Dd to comment that I did not capitalize the U.)

[Ddrak]

I would more suggest that trying to shoot someone in the head while they are moving inside a dark theater with lots of panic around is actually a bigger joke than whatever point you were trying to make about capitalization, especially given I've never corrected anyone's posting style before.

To quote Tarfang:
This is why many are taught to put two shots, center mass into their target.

Dd

[Alluveal]

My butt hurts.