Romney + Ryan = Fail

[Garrdor]

...you have another thing coming

































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This post

[Partha]

Better than them being beholden to Special Interest Groups. If they were held accountable directly by their State then you wouldn't see the amount of corruption and lifetime senators we see now.

Bull shit you wouldn't. The reason you didn't see Senators from YE GOODE OLDE DAYS bending over backwards for businesses was because corporations didn't become superpeople until the end of the 19th Century. Instead, they were bending over for the kingmakers in their states. You really should try reading history instead of cooking it.

[Arathena]

Better than them being beholden to Special Interest Groups. If they were held accountable directly by their State then you wouldn't see the amount of corruption and lifetime senators we see now.

What we saw before 1912 was Senators buying their posts from the States. Plus, parties can, and do gerrymander state legislatures, a senator is currently immune to that, and thus must truly represent his entire state.


Anyway, back to my point, so pack omegas like Fallakin can tune out:

The GOP has determined that the governance of the nation can only rest in their hands. On all issues of substance in the past four years, they have done nothing but sit on their asses and scream like toddlers who had their pacifiers taken from their mouths. The only federal budget that they have even entertained in the past quadrennial, the Ryan Budget, requires paring the non-military portions of the Federal government back to levels not seen since the Constitution was signed, while inflating the military. It obliterates the tax base as well, despite raising taxes on the poor, resulting in the expectation that debt will reach Plutonian orbit, even though it's the reason they give for their inability to govern now. When offered their own healthcare legislation back, verbatim, by the Democrats, they scream and whine and cry and puke about repealing it. When re-elected to partial governance, they stood up and swore to the nation that their only goal was ensuring that the next President was Republican, rather than to solve the nation's problems. 70% of their electoral base either believes that the President is a non-American, or believes that he may be, for no other reason than he's a Democrat.

They have a massive voter suppression effort going on - Up to 10% of the Pennsylvania electorate is expected to be turned away from the polls this year, most of it the kind of people Republicans don't want to vote. The nutbar wing of the party is once again pushing against the election of Senators, because that way, they can bring state district gerrymandering into play, and they think they can get more seats that way.

What other explanation besides a deep disbelief in the validity of democracy is there? And how can we be in any way surprised? They have been building an authoritarian movement for decades, built around paranoia and the belief that the right savior has to be in control of things, or everything will go magically wrong, enabled by the cold war and aided and abetted by the insane half of Christianity. Their idea of freedom is the right to step on the throats of the wrong sorts of people; the poor, the brown, the female, the unchristian. Our country needs to have both progressive and conservative wings. We need to be able to look with honest eyes on what works, and what hasn't worked, and what the right level of societal support for individuals is and it's obverse, and right now we can't, because we're too busy trying to deal with the asshole that would rather randomly lob thermal detonators around the town square in hopes of looting the fucking corpses.

[Embar Angylwrath]

How is asking a person to show ID voter suppression?

[Arathena]

How is asking a person to show ID voter suppression?

10% of the state's registered voters do not have valid IDs through the agency tasked with it, have not been told they do not have valid IDs, and no procedure exists to ensure that those IDs are available. PennDOT is so chronically understaffed that it can barely handle its normal duties, let alone an extra million card in three months. Their offices, also chronically understaffed, tend to have hours of operation that are non trivial to attend for those who are most unlikely to have drivers licenses.

If you really want the dirty details, I suggest you send a letter to Mike Turzai, our GOP leader, who has openly declared that Voter ID will let them give the State's electoral votes to Romney. While you're at it, take a look at Corbett's attempt at assigning our Electoral votes by congressional district, specifically in order to dilute the high Democratic turnout in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. The contempt for the process is complete and blatant.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Regardless of the opinion of politicians on what requiring voter ID will or won't do, don't you see an issue with someone just walking up, claiming to be somebody, and then casting a vote?

I don't buy the whole voter disenfanchisement meme. I think verifiying one's identity before one votes should have always been part of the process.

[Lurker]

don't you see an issue with someone just walking up, claiming to be somebody, and then casting a vote?

The correct question is, "don't you see an issue with preventing untold thousands of people from legally voting in order to stop a few dozen illegal votes?"

We've been over this before. Polling place fraud involving voter impersonation is virtually non-existent. For that reason, "solutions" to this non-existent problem damn well better not result in disenfranchising legal voters. You might not "buy the whole voter disenfranchisement meme", but that's the result of these policies. Until we can provide free and easily acquired ID's to everyone, Voter ID laws are nothing more than a modern day poll tax.

[Kulaf]

I don't have any issue with needing a valid state issued ID to vote. The issue I have is always waiting until the last few months before the election to push for it. If the problem is to be taken seriously, it needs to be phased in in such a way that there is more than sufficient time and resources made available by the states to ensure that everyone who needs an ID has ample time to get one.

[Partha]

Issued state ID is a form of poll tax. Full stop.

Secondly, when you vote, you sign a paper saying you are who you say you are, and if you're not, you become eligible for the Long Term In A Small Cell Plan at your local Federal prison. That's why in 5 years of DOJ investigations under President Bush, there were found 86 prosecutable cases of voter fraud. Three House elections, Two Senate elections, one Presidential election, over 300 million votes cast, and all they could find was less than one voter per state per year fraudulently cast - most of those by A) Felons on parole who were not informed that they still lost their voting rights while on parole, and B) People voting for recently deceased relatives.

Voter fraud is not rampant, attempts to claim it is are blatant lies, and people who yammer on and on about the Second Amendment should be ashamed of justifying stripping someone's voting rights with lies. Well, if they felt shame, anyways.

[Ddrak]

I think verifiying one's identity before one votes should have always been part of the process.

Do you then believe that the state should not charge for these ID cards? If not, then do you see a problem with effectively charging people to vote?

This is all above and beyond Kulaf's point on having sufficient time for people to obtain the IDs.

I don't think anyone minds the idea of providing some form of identity as long as that identity is easy to obtain regardless of disability/mobility/whatever, doesn't cost anything to obtain and isn't imposed as a surprise action.

Dd

[Arathena]

Live in Ohio? Vote Early, Vote Often, But Only For Republicans has gone into effect.

The GOP is no longer interested in participating in democracy.

[Embar Angylwrath]

I think verifiying one's identity before one votes should have always been part of the process.

Do you then believe that the state should not charge for these ID cards? If not, then do you see a problem with effectively charging people to vote?

This is all above and beyond Kulaf's point on having sufficient time for people to obtain the IDs.

I don't think anyone minds the idea of providing some form of identity as long as that identity is easy to obtain regardless of disability/mobility/whatever, doesn't cost anything to obtain and isn't imposed as a surprise action.

Dd

I think the voter IDs should be free of charge, to anyone.

Personally, I really don't see the issue with this, as long as it applies to all voters. If you want a real travesty of voter alienation, focus on gerrymandering, which practically invalidates your vote no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on. If you get to draw the district lines, you get to shape the election.

[Harlowe]

Live in Ohio? Vote Early, Vote Often, But Only For Republicans has gone into effect.

The GOP is no longer interested in participating in democracy.

Yeah, that was some bullshit. At least today the Ohio Secretary of State announced that all counties would follow a uniform early-voting policy.

On Wednesday afternoon, Jon Husted, the Ohio Secretary of State, announced that all Ohio counties would follow a uniform early-voting policy. The policy would extend early-voting hours to 7 p.m. on weekdays during the last two weeks before the election, though all early voting is banned during the final three days of the campaign.

[Embar Angylwrath]

In Pennsylvania and other states that have imposed strict voter ID requirements, the impact will be felt hardest by blacks, Hispanics, older citizens and students, all of whom tend to lack government ID cards at a higher rate than the general population.

Anyone have stats to back up this oft repeated meme? Blacks and Hispanics tend to drive as much as anyone. Most students would ostensibly have DL's too. I concede on the elderly, (who would typically vote conservative anyway). But whre are the hard stats that show blacks, hispanics (non-illegals) and students have government issued IDs (typically DLs) at a rate lower than, lets say, Asians, pacific Islanders and non-students of a similar age?

[Garrdor]

Popular vote... lul

[Ddrak]

In Pennsylvania and other states that have imposed strict voter ID requirements, the impact will be felt hardest by blacks, Hispanics, older citizens and students, all of whom tend to lack government ID cards at a higher rate than the general population.

Anyone have stats to back up this oft repeated meme? Blacks and Hispanics tend to drive as much as anyone. Most students would ostensibly have DL's too. I concede on the elderly, (who would typically vote conservative anyway). But whre are the hard stats that show blacks, hispanics (non-illegals) and students have government issued IDs (typically DLs) at a rate lower than, lets say, Asians, pacific Islanders and non-students of a similar age?

If you agree that those in lower income brackets are less likely to have the IDs then you can look at stats on race vs income and see the correlation.

Interesting you only put "non-illegals" beside Hispanics.

Dd

[Torakus]

Interesting you only put "non-illegals" beside Hispanics.

Dd

Most illegal Hispanics have state issued IDs.

[Arathena]

In Pennsylvania and other states that have imposed strict voter ID requirements, the impact will be felt hardest by blacks, Hispanics, older citizens and students, all of whom tend to lack government ID cards at a higher rate than the general population.

Anyone have stats to back up this oft repeated meme? Blacks and Hispanics tend to drive as much as anyone. Most students would ostensibly have DL's too. I concede on the elderly, (who would typically vote conservative anyway). But whre are the hard stats that show blacks, hispanics (non-illegals) and students have government issued IDs (typically DLs) at a rate lower than, lets say, Asians, pacific Islanders and non-students of a similar age?

Here we go:
25% of Blacks, 16% of Latinos, and 11% of the general populace lack current government issued ID - And then you stack on, as the most extreme example, "Wisconsin's Sauk City office is open only on the fifth Wednesday of every month, and since eight months in 2012 don't even have a fifth Wednesday, the office will open its doors only four days this year."

Meanwhile, there is no evidence of impersonation fraud. Anywhere. It occurs roughly once a quadrennial. It is a problem that simply does not exist.

Stack on making third party registrations harder to impossible, which minorities are many times more likely to use, Rick Scott's orders to purge the FL voter rolls of anyone that sounds Hispanic, robocalls to democrats in Wisconsin telling them they don't need to vote in the recall election because their petition signature counts... The Republican party does not believe in democracy.

[Embar Angylwrath]

That's a clearly biased piece, and the author gives no source for those stats Ara.

[Arathena]

That's a clearly biased piece, and the author gives no source for those stats Ara.

Fair enough. Here's one from the Justice Department's denial of ID law to Texas, using the Texas voter reigstration databases and the Texas Department of of Public Safety. It's settled to Hispanics, but, the point still stands. Republicans are opposed to democracy.