For you true conservatives....

[Trollbait]

Allow me to explain how an Obama win benefits the GOP.

If Obama is President two scenarios are higly likely. Because of the policies of the last eight years the next President is likely to fail in spectacular Carter like fashion which would bring back a conservative era that we have not seen since Reagan or conversely Obama could succeed in such a way as to cause a seismic shift in the GOP back to our Goldwater/Buckley roots and cause us to eject the neo-con and far right evangelical status quo that currently infects the party.

Either way is a win for true conservatives.

[Harlowe]

I agree, it would be a win-win, though personally I would rather see the second scenario happen. Obama failing miserably, would effect each and every one of us for at least 4 years. But ejecting the neo-con aspect of the GOP, would be the best thing that could happen to the party. If Republicans didn't feel pressured to pander to that base, imagine what they could get done.

By the way, this is a great book
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookse ... 8771&itm=1

My favorite conservative blogger, well, my favorite blogger period.

In The Conservative Soul, Andrew Sullivan, one of the nation's leading political commentators, makes an impassioned call to rescue conservatism from the corruption of the Republican far right, which has become the first fundamentally religious political party in America. Through an incisive look at the rise of Western fundamentalism, Sullivan argues that conservatives cannot in good conscience keep supporting a party that believes in its own God-given mission to change people's souls, instead of protecting their liberties. He carefully charts the arguments of the new conservatism, showing why they cannot work in today's America, why they fail the test of logic and pragmatism, and why they betray the conservative tradition from Edmund Burke to Ronald Reagan.

[Ddrak]

Well put, Jecks.

Dd

[Lurker]

The modern Republican party is a rotting corpse and would likely nominate Palin or someone equally as empty and dangerous in 2012. So... how would an Obama failure help "true conservatives"?

[Harlowe]

I'm very hopeful that if this current farce fails, it will be a very hard lesson learned and that they wouldn't dream of putting someone like Palin on the ticket for POTUS. I have some residual hope for the Republicans. I certainly don't believe they are the only ones that have failed this country. The Democrats have their share in the blame. Actually, I think I blame them for Bush's reign as much as the GOP. Look back to 2000 and how the Senate virtually rolled the fuck over regarding that sham of an election. They were pussies. Absolute, unorganized, accepting pussies. A prime example of what I hate in the Democratic party are the Pelosi's of this government.

[Lurker]

Well, that might have been the one thing Gore was wrong about. Gore, knowing he had won the election, asked his party to stand down after the SC ruled. He thought continuing the fight would be too damaging to the country.

I agree on Congressional Dems. They are cowards for the most part. They rolled over (or enough of them did) on many issues when the Republicans were in power, and they capitulate on issue after issue now that they have control. Not that I'd call it "control" since they still allow the Republicans to push them around. That might change with an Obama Presidency and a larger majority in both houses.

[Kulaf]

Personally.....I don't care what is best for the Republican party.....I care about what is best for the country. If there is one thing I have learned in my brief time on this planet is that once a government program is put in place it is nearly impossible to get rid of it no matter how bloated or inefficient. So McCain getting in is the only hope I see for checking Congress. Obama is just a rubber stamp.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

So McCain getting in is the only hope I see for checking Congress. Obama is just a rubber stamp.

Agreed. Then we'll have the same problems, if not worse, we had from the 6 years of the Repbulicans going unchecked.

[Harlowe]

That's ridiculous partisan-paranoia, based on no facts. The scenario of Palin as POTUS, is a much graver outcome in all this. If I were to talk about our potential future, based on the same types of factual information you are, I could easily say that McCain alone is going to get us entrenched in more wars (& do nothing to get out of this one) and will cause further loss in faith in investing in our economy or diplomacy in the world arena. Besides the fact he's an economic ignoramus (which he no longer admits since he got off his "straight talk" express years ago). He still subscribes to the trickle down economic philosophy which has never and will never work.

Personally.....I don't care what is best for the Republican party.....I care about what is best for the country.

Most people vote for what they feel is best for their country.

[Partha]

Jecks is certainly hopeful, but wrong.

The modern post-Goldwater GOP requires all three legs of the current troika to maintain it's current status; without the economic conservatives/big business, they can't possibly hope to maintain equal funding against a relatively unified Democratic Party. Without the theocons, they can't get the churches, the GOTV muscle, the willing mass. Without the neocons, they lose their thinktank muscle, their Kristols, their Kagans, their daily propaganda.

[Kulaf]

Most people vote for what they feel is best for their country.

Anyone who votes a straight ticket in this day and age does NOT have the best interest of the country at heart.....they have the best interest of their party of choice at heart. And there are a lot of people on this board who vote a straight ticket each year.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Voting straight ticket is probably the most retarded thing anyone could do.

[Harlowe]

I would have guessed the two of you would vote straight GOP. I can't imagine either of you voting for a Democrat since you've both historically spent a lot of time going after them on this board while ignoring the faults of your own party.

I don't think people vote for someone they know is going to be bad for the country. It makes no sense. Who would want that? People that vote along partylines alone have blinders on, but I believe they do it because they feel their party is better for America, not just a sports team they are rooting for.

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

I don't think people vote for someone they know is going to be bad for the country. It makes no sense. Who would want that? People that vote along partylines alone have blinders on, but I believe they do it because they feel their party is better for America, not just a sports team they are rooting for.

Actually I partially disagree. I know several women who are huge fans of Sarah Palin and will vote for her regardless of the fact McCain is a Bush in Training, and they'd vote for her if she were running as Prez and Cindy McCain was the VP. People vote for various reasons and I'm afraid among people that I know (or am acquainted with at the very least) have blinders on for many other reasons, and it has nothing to do with their party affiliation. I really believe several of them had no party affiliation, however since Palin has shown up on the scene they ignore McCain and simply are going to vote McCain because of her... i guess he accomplished his goal, but what does that say about a portion of the voting public ?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I refuse to vote a particular candidate because of their sex, their color, their religious beliefs, but i'm not against anyone because of those things either. I really wish that we had better candidates, and I feel irresponsible NOT voting however there used to be a time when both candidates didn't just call LIAR on the other, and they meant what they said. Politics has always been and always will be ugly, but how about working towards improving this country instead of saying what the masses WANT to hear ? I want my friends to look into the issues, and the words that are being said, maybe not all of them are true but don't vote for someone because they're a woman, don't vote for someone because they were in the military, don't vote for someone for the single nit picking reason you can come up.

Where's the next Teddy Roosevelt, or JFK, or Jimmy Carter when you need them. Maybe they're running now, and maybe we're looking down the barrel of a loaded nuke.

[Harlowe]

That really doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying. Choosing Palin because she's a woman is not voting down partylines, just as choosing Obama because he's black would not be voting down partylines. A party has a political ideology and platform - if you think that platform or ideology is better for you and this country, you are more likely than not, to vote along partylines - because candidates are somewhat beholden to that platform. I think it's more pragmatic to vote for the best man for the job, but often when there is no clear choice, the safest thing for a person to do is to vote down partylines if there is a shared ideology. So, I don't presume that people are treating their support or vote like a sporting team, but voting for a general ideology that they feel is best for them and their country.

If you had been listening to Obama or Biden, they aren't just calling out the other for their lies. They have a lot to say about what they think will help this country and have not been running the sleazy campaign that McCain has now dived headfirst into.

But I will correct one thing "I don't think people..." should be "I don't think reasonably intelligent people.."

[Kulaf]

I would have guessed the two of you would vote straight GOP. I can't imagine either of you voting for a Democrat since you've both historically spent a lot of time going after them on this board while ignoring the faults of your own party.

No I've said quite a few times that I voted for Bill Clinton in his first run for the presidency. And locally I vote for a lot of Dems. This jives with my overall political philosophy were taxes should be collected on the state level......and spent on the state level. I don't want big federal government and I don't want big federal taxes.

And what Dems have I "gone after"? I can't recall devoting any effort going after any.

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

I should have written a bit more Harlowe. The women I'm talking about are self proclaimed Republicans, but are now especially so because of Palin. They weren't Pro Hillary, they aren't necessarily Pro Republican but they've become very fanatical because OF Palin. Most have said they weren't going to vote at all until Palin came on the scene. In my mind it's worse to all the sudden go from zero cares to being an absolute fanatic because someone's got boobs and a fun pouch then to vote down a party line and refuse to even see any other side of the coin.

My father will be voting Republican because he's 63 year old, a staunch Republican and a 24 year Navy Veteran, he feels John McCain is the RIGHT MAN for the job. I don't begrudge him that, however I refuse to fall into the baited discussions at Sunday dinner because he likes to pick a fight with me, and he just wants to "bring me into the light" and away from the evils of the Democratic party. He believes the right wing is the only side that matters and that Obama is a joke, Hillary is a raging Nazi and Bill Clinton is the worst thing to happen to Americans in a long time... never mind that pesky little Iraq mess, or the tanking economy, or the fact all of his retirement funds are tied up in investments that he could lose at any point in time... but it could be worse, I could have registered as an Anarchist

[Harlowe]

If they weren't for Hillary, but are hardcore for Palin and self-proclaimed Republicans, then they are voting for an ideology moreso than a woman. Palin just energized their original support. So I wouldn't begrudge them their rationale for voting for McCain/Palin.

[Partha]

I think I can sum up this election in a nutshell.

[Harlowe]

That reminds me of that old guy on the news with a big "Obama is a MUSLIN" sign in his yard. Yes....musliN.