More Hope and Change

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60921.html

Not having a record to run on, Obama decides waaaaay in advance to go negative in the Presidential campaign.

Please contrast that to his statements about changing the way things are donwe in Washington when he was campaigning for the Presidency.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

Looks like Obama has finally realized he has to fight fire with fire.

[Harlowe]

Can't blame him, that's how the two-party system works and the GOP is going and will be going FULL on frontal negativity. People will most likely get sick of listening to both sides.

He continues to be better than the alternative - which are candidates that cater to the crazy Tea Party extremists. Since a positive Hopey-Changey thing isn't going to get people to the polls this time (imo), he's going to have to scare his base to the polls to vote. We know that's what winning elections are primarly about - getting your base to the booth. I think Lurker mentioned that already ...or someone did.

So if you aren't going to convince people in a positive way, because even though he told people over and over again it was going to be hard and get worse before it got better, sacrifice yada yada, people don't think about that, they just focus on tag lines, he's going to need to fight fire with fire this time to get a good turn out.

[Lurker]

We know that's what winning elections are primarly about - getting your base to the booth. I think Lurker mentioned that already ...or someone did.

Yeah, I mentioned that after the last election.

But if Obama is going negative that's the final straw! This isn't the change I voted for. I'm going to switch my support to the Republicans... you know... the same crowd who deliberately sabotaged the recovery for political advantage and is guaranteed to wage the most dishonest and despicable campaign imaginable.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

If it keeps up the nation is going to be so divided and at each other throats it'll hardly matter who gets voted in.

[Harlowe]

Part of me feels that way, but then historically, people are always saying that and have said that for decades. I think every generation believes it. The teams never play nice together and the country is always divided sometimes more violently than others...you don't even have to go as far back as the civil war, think of civil rights. It's certainly not as violent and as divided as then.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Thank god for the Republicans for getting us through that mess of civil rights.

[MeGusta]

He continues to be better than the alternative - which are candidates that cater to the crazy Tea Party extremists.

This sentence is emblematic of this particular discussion board.

Firstly, I would say that attempting to marginalize your political adversaries as "crazy" and "extremist" is currently the state of political high fashion but it hardly makes you look any less crazy than they are. A polarizing string of commentary has an equal effect on its purveyor. There are political moderates in the Republican field. It will be difficult during the primaries to single them out since they must feed the base, but if you have even a passing knowledge of the platforms and records you will see that this is true. I, however, do not like any of their policies or platforms.

Secondly, it is patently untrue that there are only two possibilities. If the base are dissatisfied with Obama they may run a primary challenger. I do not speak to that persons chances of success, but it is entirely within the realm of possible alternatives.

[Embar Angylwrath]

@ Harlowe -

Can't blame him?

He knew the politics of DC. He made statements based on that knowledge. He has failed on bringing change,

But thats the Rep's fault, right?

[Jarochai Alabaster]

But thats the Rep's fault, right?

Since they're the ones refusing to compromise, obstructing any attempts at recovery, and ignoring the desires of the population, yes it is their fault.

Obama tried to play nice. The GOP pushed back harder and got crazier in response. The Prez is simply changing tactics. It's unfortunate that he has to, but they've left him no alternative.

[Harlowe]

I'm dealing in the reality of the political situation, not magical "anything is possible" thinking. A primary challenger would never get support, because although Obama isn't perfect, he's not awful either and in spite of a lot of negative shit going on, he still has a decent approval rating. The fact is, that for the most part, whether Democrats or Republicans, party members go home with the one that brought them, no matter which party they are in.

Secondly, the Tea Party is filled with complete loons. Everyone knows this. They are predominately the ignorant, angry villagers. They are not only irrational, but often racist, homophobic and xenophobic - and frankly they couldn't give two shits about freedom for individuals...and ANY group that is against social liberties is dangerous in my mind. Dangerous and antiquated. They are all anger, slogans and bullshit. It's not the GOP, I wouldn't blame the entire party, there are still people within it that I respect (some I'd even go so far as to say I'd vote for them), but they aren't the ones with power within the party. The heavy-hitters in the GOP are allowing themselves to become a pawn of the Tea Party movement, so I do blame them for forfeiting their political agenda for an extremist group's that is not only utterly lacking in both forward and critical thinking, it's irrational and irresponsible - which makes voting with the GOP dangerous. Moderates in the GOP do not stand a chance at getting to the primary for the WH. Hell most of them are considered Rinos.

The rational voices within the party are drowned out by the religious con-men.

So I guess, really I have to take that back and say, yes I do blame them...just not all of them. So in essence, I agree with Jaro.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Secondly, the Tea Party is filled with complete loons. Everyone knows this. They are predominately the ignorant, angry villagers. They are not only irrational, but often racist, homophobic and xenophobic -

Please tell me you don't actually believe this...

[Harlowe]

Yep, based on what I see, I agree with this guy.


http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 79537.html

Tea Party Terminators
Cliff Schecter Last Modified: 11 Aug 2011 10:46

Towards the beginning of the original Terminator film, Kyle Reese, who has come back to the past to save Sarah Connor - whose spawn will save mankind - lets her know what she's facing in her new cybernetic stalker. "Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead."

Substitute "Tea Party" for "Terminator" and "U.S. Government" for "you," and with the exception of "fear" (which I'd argue is what drives them), this pretty much sums up the story of the 60-odd birdbrain Birchers who have rebranded themselves Tea Partiers and brought more crazy than Kanye West to the House of Representatives.

The recent war over the federal budget and debt ceiling were simply the latest in a long line of skirmishes where Democrats - the self-described practitioners of "good faith" and seekers of compromise - found themselves in a pitched policy battle with recalcitrant Republicans. Right wingers so high on radical, Randian, Tea-Party-brewed, Kool Aid, that anything short of dismantling the Federal Government and requiring universal tattooing of Milton Friedman where-the-sun-don't-shine was treason.

Humble beginnings

After its humble beginnings as an astroturf, Koch-Brothers-funded revival aimed at mobilising ill-informed, reactionary, older white Americans against health care reform and other psychologically-constructed monsters under the bed, the Tea Party has become an malignant force that now holds the Republican Congressional Caucus - and with it the country - hostage.

While the Stockholm Syndrome may not have quite set in yet among all Republicans, the tri-corner-hat crowd seems to behave much like the giant Brain Bug in the movie Starship Troopers, jamming a claw into the heads of their fellow GOPers and slowly sucking out cerebral tissue until only the brainless body remains.

Most problematic, most of the Tea Partiers, private citizens and elected officials alike, seem to possess just slightly less understanding of the Federal budget or tax code of say, Mater from Cars. Yet, these are the people in the driver's seat as the country heads for what might be Act II of the Great Recession, unless progressives, centrists, and others edified with high school civics adopt a new strategy to counter them.

And counter them we must, for they and their ilk are nothing new, but representative of a recurring and quite dangerous political strain that has always been with us since the dawn of civilization. Their undermining of the traditions, culture, and give-and-take necessary for any democracy to function has had destructive results on free societies in the past, and taken down a Republic or two.

Compromise is evil

This is what President Obama seems constitutionally unable to grasp. That even if they are a sometimes useful foil, and (sadly) sometimes equally useful in getting him the policy results he wishes, by definition the Tea Party brigade sees any compromise as evil, because everyone to the left of Pat Buchanan is viewed as a mortal threat to their imagined perfect society, which looks a lot like Utah.

You know, with fewer minorities. And a lot more Jesus.

None other than former Secretary of State and one-time Republican wunderkind Henry Kissinger understood this to be true. In his first book on the Napoleonic wars, Kissinger offered an almost perfect description, on the international stage, what can happen when an entity with no interest in compromise and no problem destroying the current order gains control of major political party or country:

"It is a mistake to assume that diplomacy can always settle international disputes if there is 'good faith' and 'willingness to come to an agreement'"; in a revolutionary situation "each power will seem to its opponent to lack precisely these qualities. In such circumstances many will see the early demands of a revolutionary power as 'merely tactical' and will delude themselves that the revolutionary power would actually accept the status quo with a few modifications."

Kissinger concluded that, "Coalitions against revolutions have usually come about only at the end of a long series of betrayals ... for the powers which represent legitimacy ... cannot 'know' that their antagonist is not amenable to 'reason' until he has demonstrated [that he is not]."

Sound familiar?

Fight fire with fire

From its inception, the Tea Party is the very definition of the type of revolutionary movement. Until Democrats, and their leader in the White House, realise they need to stop calling people like Paul Ryan "courageous" and "serious", and start fighting fire with fire, Michelle Bachmann and her creepy pinwheel eyes are going to continue to get their way at the expense of American values and the middle-class that once made this country great.

The late, great historian Richard Hofstadter added further insight into just the type of "movement" we're dealing with, in his 1964 award-winning tome, "The Paranoid Style of American Politics". In it, he outlines the psychological origins of the type of crazed, Tea-bagger style of all-or-nothing dedication to an absolute end, when he wrote of their forebears:

"He does not see social conflict as something to be mediated and compromised, in the manner of the working politician. Since what is at stake is always a conflict between absolute good and absolute evil, what is necessary is not compromise but the will to fight things out to a finish. Since the enemy is thought of as being totally evil and totally unappeasable, he must be totally eliminated - if not from the world, at least from the theatre of operations to which the paranoid directs his attention."

In other words, any compromise, no matter how small, is seen as an act tantamount to treason, which is precisely why we need to stop engaging these tottering tea lovers, because they simply do not believe in the workings of democracy.

There is no such thing as "good faith" with these people. Like the Terminator, or The South before the Civil War (the region which spawned much of this movement, not surprisingly) the Bachmannites simply must be defeated - beaten in the world of combat, political combat in this particular case (lest anyone think I am advocating war - which I am not).

The Republican Party is no longer the party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Eisenhower, or even Reagan anymore - the Republican Party in its current form is nothing more than the party of Ted Nugent - hopefully with somewhat better hair.

Speaking of Lincoln, he proffered to Congress in 1861 that, "The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise - with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country."
What he said.

[MeGusta]

I am no Tea Party fan but this gentleman's ravings are no better than Michelle Bachman. I think even as an opinion piece this is poorly written drivel that paints with too broad a brush. An open minded person would see this for what it is. Garbage.

[Lurker]

I am no Tea Party fan but this gentleman's ravings are no better than Michelle Bachman.

You don't see the irony in trashing the piece Harlowe posted by comparing it to the "ravings" of Michelle Bachman... one of the standard-bearers for the Tea Party movement?

The Teapublicans (and lets be honest, this is nothing but a rebranding of the Republican base) is comprised of a toxic mix of fear and ignorance that extends from their elected officials to the rank-and-file. The vast majority of them know nothing about policy. They are deeply confused about what's going on. Given the massive amounts of disinformation that's funneled into their heads by their leaders in government and media it's not too surprising.

[MeGusta]

You don't see the irony in trashing the piece Harlowe posted by comparing it to the "ravings" of Michelle Bachman... one of the standard-bearers for the Tea Party movement?

Of course I do. The comparison was used on purpose to demonstrate the irony inherent in posting the writings of one raving idiot to counter another group of idiots.

The vast majority of them know nothing about policy. They are deeply confused about what's going on. Given the massive amounts of disinformation that's funneled into their heads by their leaders in government and media it's not too surprising.

I would suggest that this is true for the populace in general, no matter what they call themselves. Liberal, conservative, progressive, tea party, et al.

[Harlowe]

Okay Jecks. Why not use your regular account? A new account comes along and already has a pompous attitude towards the board. Yeah, it's fairly obvious.

[Ddrak]

Me Gusta isn't Jecks, or anyone else as far as I can tell.

Dd

[Lurker]

How can we be sure you aren't Jecks?

[Harlowe]

What are the odds it's someone completely new? He just sounds way to Jecks or Rsak-esque to me. Isn't it easy to use a proxy server to mask your IP, even sofware that does it. I don't know. Just doesn't feel like fresh meat coming here at all (what fresh meat other than bots would find us anyway).

Rsak or Jecks. Someone that has a history here. After a few posts from him in the beginning, I had assumed Jecks....but Rsak is a definite second choice.