Pry-bit skool antics

[Relbeek Einre]

Couple ran a Christian private school and abused their students.

http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?S=2903844

But at least those kids weren't in a public school!

[Relbeek Einre]

Oh, and here's your tax dollars at work with dem vouchers!

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/conte ... _0516.html

Wow, what a great alternative to gub'mint skool!

[Embar Angylwrath]

Beek,

In the first instance you gave (haven't gotten to the second one, 'cause I'm assuming if you've misinterpreted the first, you'll probably misinterpret the second), the report says that children were abused by an individual who ran a Christain school. And if you do even more research, you'll find she's accused of abusing her own foster kids, whom she was home-schooling.

To my knowledge, there has been no allegation she abused any other children but her own.

Apples-oranges here.

[Aabe]

Just came back from Oregon. The local gubment skool has very poor prospects for college and high prospects for early preggers fer th' ladies.

The local religious skool, charges $270 ( at one point she had all 3 kids in skool for 3 times the price) and people from a 30 mile radius compete to get their kids in.

No vouchers. My sister is a nurse and it hurts to pay the monthly and other fees. They also are not religious or even want to be.

So the parents with kids that care, leave the public skool n the bar lowers. I watched a community youth basketball game while I was there. Three of the dads came to watch the game with "BEER, its whats for breakfast", and other catchy slogans, to set the example for the kids tee shirts. Many showed up filthy and apparently didnt own a comb or shaver. A few obviously couldnt afford deoderant and Im pretty tolerant of body odor.

I dont give a rip about religious schools or not. But I hate seeing my birth stomping grounds deteriorating to a psudo slum. My sister was pleased enough to find a route she could get her 2 girls through and they are both now in college. (very exceptional for that area and her son will soon follow).

Laugh at vouchers if you will. But for the familys that can't pony up the $270/mo per kid. They get to roll the dice with very long odds.

I don't know that vouchers would fix it, but at least the poorer people that give a damn about their kids will at least have a choice.

[Partha]

Except, of course, private schools can still pick and choose the kids they want to teach - and very few of them would pick the students you describe.

Vouchers are nothing more than a feelgood bandaid for economic discrimination.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Except, of course, private schools can still pick and choose the kids they want to teach - and very few of them would pick the students you describe.

Vouchers are nothing more than a feelgood bandaid for economic discrimination.

What students would those be Partha? Describe them for us.

[Partha]

Low income students. Students with learning disabilities. Students with behavioral problems. Private schools are all about cost/benefit ratios, and students who don't maximize the same don't get selected.

It is easy to skim the cream of any institution, put them in one group, and then claim that you're doing your job better than the other group.

[Arathena]

By the same token, however, there are those schools which specialize in taking in the problem student. My little sister spent three years in a school run by holy rollers after the public school system failed her to the point where she was a straight F student for three years running(she was advanced anyway), with a penchant for attacking her fellow students - most of whom were pretty abusive of her. We did our damndest for her at home, but when we were told, point blank, by none other than the superintendant of the school, that the school would do absolutely nothing to help us, we yanked her.

We took her out of the local schools, put her in the private one, and the turnaround took about, oh, half a year. While she hated it, she at least stopped assaulting her fellow students, and her grades came up not to As, but a solid B-C. Most of her classmates had worse backgrounds than she did. The school didn't offer courses above 8th grade, so when she finished there, she re-entered the public school system, and had learned enough about being a student that she was able to scrape by. Not well, mind you, but she was able to graduate. There is, of course, a hell of a lot more that we did for her besides changing the schools, but that the public school would outright refuse to even /attempt/ to help us...

[Partha]

....means that whoever ran THAT school did a bad job. That's no more an indictment of all public schools than Beek's example is an indictment of all private schools.

And of course, without knowing the specifics of your sister's case, it would be hard to comment further on it specifically, so I won't. I WILL agree that there ARE schools that work with problem students, but those are the exception in the private system as well as in the public system - the difference is that the public school HAS to teach them. The private school is under no such obligation.

[Relbeek Einre]

Beek,

In the first instance you gave (haven't gotten to the second one, 'cause I'm assuming if you've misinterpreted the first, you'll probably misinterpret the second), the report says that children were abused by an individual who ran a Christain school. And if you do even more research, you'll find she's accused of abusing her own foster kids, whom she was home-schooling.

True... but they were 'home schooled" in the same building as the rest of the students - just segregated out.

Of course, that makes it OK.

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

Yes Partha private schools have the right to pick and choose, but most of the time it's an application process anf they take the children who's families care the most, income, needs or not. Most parents with a special needs child would desperatly want the best for that child, and hope to get it in a private school as opposed to the public school. Why should those children be turned down because daddy isn't a Dr and mommy isn't a lwyer ? Right cause 80k > 30k

I went to Catholic school for a few years and there was a family in particular that sent there kids. One had diabetes, one had cystic fibrosis, one was downs syndrome,and they all had learnign disabilities of some sort... they had 6 kids in the school and 2 at home, and they made about 60k a year. They were worked with on tuition so their kids would have the best chances possible

[Relbeek Einre]

Yes Partha private schools have the right to pick and choose, but most of the time it's an application process anf they take the children who's families care the most, income, needs or not.

Naive... very naive. Some schools, yes, but nowhere near "most cases".

[Embar Angylwrath]

Low income students. Students with learning disabilities. Students with behavioral problems. Private schools are all about cost/benefit ratios, and students who don't maximize the same don't get selected.

It is easy to skim the cream of any institution, put them in one group, and then claim that you're doing your job better than the other group.

You see, that statement indicates how little you truly know about the majority of private schools.

Most private schools are not the elitist "Exiter" type schools. Most are schools that are affiliated with some type of organized religion. These "private" schools do not turn away low-income students or students with learning disabilities.

Do a google on Catholic schools in your city (if its a larger one). You'll see many of them located in blighted and lower socio-economic areas. They take kids that live in those areas. They take the ones that are learning disabled. I remember in my grade school we had two deaf children, and that was just in my grade. I don't know what else was going in in the other seven grades.

And most of the "private" schools I'm talking about have a sliding scale for tuition. If your parents make more, then the tuition is more. If they make less, then the tuition is less. In some cases, its free. (My tuition was nearly free because we were on the poverty line).

You should really try to talk to some kids and parents who go to private schools and see just how non-exclusive they really are. In most of the schools, the exclusivity lies in the religion (in Catholic schools, Catholics get first shot at any open slots, then the remainder are opend up, and I imagine its the same for any other congregational based schools)

[Relbeek Einre]

No, the exclusivity also lies in exactly what Partha mentioned, Embar.

[Aabe]

Except, of course, private schools can still pick and choose the kids they want to teach - and very few of them would pick the students you describe.

Vouchers are nothing more than a feelgood bandaid for economic discrimination.

The school I am talking about, the two kids that graduated neither ever attended the sponsoring school or still have any religious affiliations.

All it takes to get into the school, is clean clothes, not uniforms. Even the poor people that care about it can come up with clean clothes and have their kids hair combed. My sister is by no means upper middle class, they work two jobs and overtime to get there kids in the school. I have talked to several people that I went to school with in the area and many would like to get their kids in this school, but on $17 per hour single income they couldnt swing it.

Now there are those whose parents dont give a rip and they wouldnt even bother to get their kids in a private school anyway.

The main requirements are,
1. your kid will follow rules, and
2. you as a parent will be involved.

Lots of people that CAN NOT afford $270 per month per kid meet that criterion.

[Relbeek Einre]

In most school districts, Aabe, public schools can't refuse kids for point 1.

In some, they can't refuse kids for point 2 either. (My school district requires active parent participation, and I like it that way.)

That's the advantage private schools will always have.

[Embar Angylwrath]

No, the exclusivity also lies in exactly what Partha mentioned, Embar.

You're dead wrong Beek. And you have plenty of people posting on this topic who have had practical experience with private schools telling you so.

Don't be Rsak.

[Aabe]

I understand, my high school in that area had kids smoking all kinds of things out on the back wall on the school grounds. Silly me asked the vice principal why he didn't go out and kick em off the school grounds. The arguement went something like this.

1. The superintendent doesnt like to loose revenue.
2. The parents come in screaming that they pay taxes and the kids should be free to smoke on the school grounds if they want.

So, since the majority of the community doesnt give a rip, they just have rules they dont enforce and what a wonderful lesson that was to the rest of us.

All weekend I tried to think of something to "make it better" there. But the only real solution is to get the community to care. I don't live there and not sure how I would make people care even if I did live there. The only other alternatives I could think of would be to somehow make the parents accountable. (take their beer money) Or go private school till the public school there sees the writing on the wall and gets creative.

The private school there my sister uses, is a dumpy building with barely enough room for the kids. No gym, no sports teams, they just barely get by on the $270 per month per child they take in. If the parents dont do a lot of volunteering of time, vehicles and in kind donations as things break down it wont make it either.

It's a product of parents sick and tired of a crappy public school, that they have had little luck in changing. My nephew decided last year to switch to public school because he likes basket ball. He went from being very average in his class to top of the class and NO homework in the public school. This year he moved back to private with the promise he could play football next year via the city league.

The private school there is NOT a status symbol thing, no body cares if you go there, it has no fancy uniforms, it's just a safe haven you can get you kid educated in IF you have or can get the money, and help the school out when the roof spings a leak or some such thing.

[Relbeek Einre]

You're dead wrong Beek. And you have plenty of people posting on this topic who have had practical experience with private schools telling you so.

You speak that as if I haven't, Embar. Private schools are wildly divergent in their practices - just as public schools are, only moreso. There are some private schools who operate as altruistically as you mention ... there are plenty that don't.

It is a truly rare private school that will accept a discipline case from a public school.

[Aabe]

In most school districts, Aabe, public schools can't refuse kids for point 1.

In some, they can't refuse kids for point 2 either. (My school district requires active parent participation, and I like it that way.)

That's the advantage private schools will always have.

I guess in part Beek, it's a matter of what the funtion of the school is. Do we have special schools for kids that learn slower? or are disabled? Do you apply a fairness standard to people so they go at the pace of the slowest person? Does one size fit all students? Do we make the "swiss army knife" school handle more and more types?(troubled kids, disabled kids, slow kids, fast kids, ect)

You move the really sharp kids off in their own group, the rest miss out on better discussions in class.

Honestly I don't know the answer. I wonder if by offering alternatives, perhaps better ways to teach might emerge that service ALL the students better(special needs as well as high achievers). Maybe with a variety of private schools we can evolve past what we have now (bad schools die out execptional ones prosper). I do know that the size of the beurocrasy in the current system will kick and scream against any major changes or evolution. In places where a majority of the parents care and volunteer most any system will work.

From where I stand today, private schools give people is areas that the parents as whole dont care about education, a way out.